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Thread: Special Comment: Proposition 8

  1. #25
    Nepenthusiast's Avatar
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    Dimka,
    Its not up to your religion to decide what is best for everyone else. Go to church, live a monastic life, do whatever you want, but leave it out of other peoples lives. Religion as an excuse to opress people is dead religion, and I have no problem challenging those who practice it.
    I live in the only state where it's legal for gay couples to marry, and it truly would affect me on a very personal level if it were illegalized, even though I'm straight. The best teacher I've ever had is gay and has a legal partner. My brother's best freind has 2 moms. You're trying to convince me that they are somehow not worth defending? That because in any other state they would be "unequal" and illegal, I shouldn't try to help them because in the end everything will still be unjust anyway? That's just plain laziness.
    To me, most religion throughout history seems to be little more than a tool for oppression and the sustanance of power for individuals.
    I think Joseph II put it nicely:
    "The state...is the greatest good for the greatest number."

    EDIT: In response to your new post: If everyone were TOTALLY equal, we wouldn't really need government, because we'd all get along. Government exists only for the people, to keep them safe.
    Also, probably everyone is never going to be economically/socially equal. There will always be people who are better off than others, and people who take charge. Thats just human nature. I'm not arguing for socialism here, although I think that aspects of it can be adopted very successfuly (I'll resist going into that). But people shouldn't be put down because of something they can't change, like their skin color or sexual orientation. Can't you agree with me on that last sentance? It seems so basic...

  2. #26
    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    I work with gays (catering, full of them, chefs, florists, caterers, guests) and we've no problem discussing the issues.
    They know what I think about it and in response, they hit on me.
    Even though I have such radical negative views on them, that does not stop me from interacting with them as with normal people. We joke around and laugh about it, while still retaining our points of view.
    Besides, how is my religion an issue in this?
    I am simply disproving the guy in the video. It still makes me smile that he used writings of a womanizer who lived hundreds of years ago in an extremely anti-gay society to defend gay marriage.
    Its like using Hitler's, Lenin's or Marx' writing and actions to create a society of universal equality and happiness.
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

    An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
    - Terry Pratchett

  3. #27

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    This is why I voted yes on prop 8

    This is why I voted yes on prop 8.

    Reason 1:I'm a christian and am perfectly well aware that the Bible in numerous passages and explicitly condemns homosexuality. I cannot in good conscience vote for something I believe wholeheartedly is wrong.

    If this is offensive to some, then those of you who disagree should at least grant us Christians that we are merely being faithful to our God. I do not hate homosexuals. I have no desire to see them suffer. But I will not honor them above my God.

    Reason 2:I do not want myself, my fellow Christians, or my descendants to experience persecution on account of gay marriage.

    If gay marriage passes then a gay couple could come to my church, demand that my pastor marry them, and then sue the church when he refuses. My church could then lose its tax exempt status. Weak argument? It violates freedom of religion right? Problem is that in California we have too many far left judges that legislate from the bench. They would be only to eager to "defend" gay rights, even at the expense of our freedom of religion. Think this would never happen? Let us not forget that the homosexual agenda is well funded and plenty militant too.

    Another big problem would be what my children are taught in school. California teachers can, and most without a doubt would, teach my kids in public school that gay marriage is okay. And then if gay marriage passes in California I could do nothing to stop it nor could I have them be removed from class before their indoctrination begins.(This has already happened in Massachussetts BTW) In fact my 7 year old nephew's teacher taught him that gay marriage was okay(just prior to prop 8 passing). If you knew my nephew's history of abuse and problems with his behavior in inappropriate touching you would have to concede that my sister had a valid complaint when in a school IEP meeting she complained about how this was a really bad and destructive thing for him to hear.

  4. #28
    Metal King
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    hahaha "homosexual agenda" there is no point reading past that, the "homosexual agenda" is baseless fear-mongering in its most laughable form.

    My gay uncle's agenda is to go to work monday to friday, and do shopping on the weekend, sometimes kicking back with some fruity drinks, and always ready to help us out with whatever we might need at any given time.
    Da Growlist

    "You don't need a license to drive a sandwich"-Spongebob Squarepants

  5. #29
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimka View Post
    Ok guys.
    After receiving a barrage of angry pms, I think there has been a misunderstanding.
    Imagine my surprise that some people did not interpret your recent posts as constructive discussion and debate.

    xvart.
    Last edited by xvart; 11-11-2008 at 12:29 PM.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #30

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    Mabuden how to explain how the No on Prop 8 received so much funding if there is no "homosexual agenda?"

  7. #31
    Nepenthusiast's Avatar
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    "Christianity, Judaism and Islam all state there are different "levels of society" if you will, in heaven and hell.
    So why should everything be on the same level here? Especially this, which is against the very nature of this world! This is a n abomination tarnishing the moral fabric of the society."
    I'm not gonna worry about it since the post was deleted. But that is what I was referring to by "Your religion."
    @I don't like form:
    I'm not going to argue with you by repeating what I already said. However, I'm very sorry to hear about your nephew. Sounds like the teacher had issues entirely apart from him being pro-gay.
    I haven't noticed any indoctrination in any of the MA schools I've been to.

  8. #32
    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvart View Post
    Imagine my surprise that some people did not interpret your recent posts as constructive discussion and debate.

    xvart.
    I think it is because majority of them has intelligence level below a wilted sunflower.
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

    An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
    - Terry Pratchett

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