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More Welfare for Wallstreet

Well the Feds are working on getting together a few hundred billion to bail out the auto industry.

I am all for the feds supplying health care and welfare for individual people who need it, but then I always put people before power. I feel it is the duty of the Gov't to assist it's disenfranchised citizens and get them back on their feet. Whether this includes day care, health care, food stamps or schooling, it doesn't matter to me. Whatever it takes to get them up and productive as working / contributing citizens again and off the dole is what should be done. But this welfare for already wealthy corporations is getting ridiculous. At least in the "good old days" Gov't and big business kept their hanky panky behind closed doors and it took a Noam Chomsky or someone like that to show us how to figure out what they're up to. Nowadays they're "doing it" right in our living rooms every night on the news and we get to watch.

Nobody bails out Jerry the Orchids Ltd guy or Gary who owns the Wet Pet aquarium store if their businesses should go belly up, which is fine, business is a risk even though these two are my pals and I'd hate to see them fail. I can't go along with bailing out any industries, or at the least, those who wish to remain deregulated or "free market". Minnesota's own NWA airlines seems to have been the real precedent setter in all of this when they got the bailout for pensions and operating costs so the CEOs could continue their lifestyles.

They also just caught some of the top pigs over at AIG enjoying a spa retreat on video after they got their first bailout while they're asking for another one.

(and on top of all that, The Daily Show / Colbert Report is reruns this week.... wait, just Monday! :))
 
Sigh. Did anyone NOT see this coming?

Your tax dollars at work, folks!
 
Great. More money I can't spare going into other peoples pockets. IMO, no one person or corporation should be bailed out ever. I really hate bailouts!!:censor:
 
I don't really believe the auto corps need the bailout.
Their CEO's alone bank accounts could probably bail out the entire country. I suppose it is all tied up on the top somewhere, so we, on the bottom, have to give our tax money so that the "fat-cats" do not have to lighten their wallets... heh
 
But since its at the top, that means it will trickle-down! Ok, thats enough politics for one day.

So I am mixed on this. These companies are going down and besides a slight nostalgia factor I feel nothing for them. Why should these guys get a bailout?

But at the same time, there will be a lot of people out of work. A LOT. In a region that needs those jobs. I dunno...
 
It's especially aggravating when you consider how much the automakers spent on lobbying to prevent fuel economy standards from being raised. Let's think this through ... if they had accepted stricter standards then, they would have invested in developing cars that would be more appealing to buyers now. So let's reward them not just for being stupid, but for being stupid and manipulative.
 
the REAL cost of these bailouts!

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/126117/Bailout-Price-Tag-3.5T-So-Far-But-%27Real%27-Cost-May-Be-Much-Higher?tickers=AIG,FNM,FRE,XLF,^DJI,^GSPC,C


While the government is clearly spending a lot of taxpayers' money to bail out financial firms, the tally is even bigger than most Americans (economists and pundits included) are probably aware or willing to admit.

The bailout bonanza has gotten so big and happened so fast it's the true cost often gets lost in the discussion. Maybe Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke prefer it that way because the tally so far is nearly $3.5 trillion, and that's before a likely handout for the auto industry.

Yes, $3.45 trillion has already been spent, as Bailoutsleuth.com details:

$2T Emergency Fed Loans (the ones the Fed won't discuss, as detailed here)
$700B TARP (designed to buy bad debt, the fund is rapidly transforming as we'll discuss in an upcoming segment)
$300B Hope Now (the government's year-old attempt at mortgage workouts)
$200B Fannie/Freddie
$140B Tax Breaks for Banks (WaPo has the details)
$110B: AIG (with it's new deal this week, the big insurer got $40B of TARP money, plus $110B in other relief)
Tallying up the "true" cost of the bailout is difficult, and won't be known for months if not years. But considering $3.5 trillion is about 25% of the U.S. economy ($13.8 trillion in 2007) and the U.S. deficit may hit $1 trillion in fiscal 2009, hyperinflation and/or sharply higher interest rates seem likely outcomes down the road.

At the very least, the possibility of the U.S. losing its vaunted Aaa credit rating -- which determines the Treasury's borrowing costs -- cannot be discounted.

Moody's has already said it's not in jeopardy of being lowered. But we really can't put much stock in what Moody's -- or S&P or Fitch -- say after the subprime debacle, can we? More importantly, the price of credit default swaps on U.S. government debt has been on the rise since the bailout train got rolling, as Barron's reports.

mission-accomplished.png



Stop the madness! We are bankrupting ourselves!:censor:
 
Well if they didn't invest in the auto industry thousands of people would loose their job. All of them going on welfare, wich in the end could quite possibly cost way more than what they invested now to save the auto industry.
Same thing with all the banks and insurance companies, if you let those go bankrupt the whole economy will plumit to the ground, and jerry the orchid ltd guy would go out of money aswell.

You say in your post that you are all for getting people back on their feet, what your goverment did here was to prevent them from falling over in the first place (I'm not talking about the traders who made millions, no, i'm talking about the thousand of employees that work for those industries)

I do agree that alot of things could've been done better, but you shouldn't forget that these are unstable economic times and the government has to react fast, and might not have enough time to double check other possibilities.
I do agree that it is unfair that some CEO's and Traders get such giant saleries, that's absurd. But thats also part of the 'free market' you just said you thought was the ideal and we shouldn't regulate it.
I also agree that that kind of support isn't ideal, but unless you really want to go bankrupt, I suggest you learn to live with it, because otherwise thousands and millions of people (those who lost their jobs, those who lost their money because banks go bankrupt and the list goes on) will have to turn to the government and in a long term scenario (or even short term) could cost way more. It wouldn't alone put a large strain on those who do still have jobs (taxes), but in the end it will bankrupt the entire country
 
First Welfare for the lazy. (thanks FDR and LBJ. . .)

And now Welfare for the unfortunate corporations.

Take your lumps like men Wall Street. sheesh. . .
 
  • #10
First Welfare for the lazy.

CURSE you disabled people in wheelchairs. All you do is sit around!
 
  • #11
I know several people who receive welfare and subsidized apartments because they are poor... or rather officially they are poor (like they get a check at work for $160 a week, but in reality get around 20k a month deposited into a bank account not in their name, but to which they have access). From that money they buy themselves brand new homes or build palaces (seriously, those things have like 5 stories and are covered with marble and stuff), but officially it is in their relatives' names and the relatives live like in Europe or something and never even saw the house. What do they do with subsidized apartments? They rent it to people of course! Seriously, I know businessmen, even doctors who do that. I guess for some people money is all there is to life.
And the rest of us decent working folks work our butts off and are not eligible for welfare and food stamps... in any case I'm not gonna leech off the government unless I absolutely must.
 
  • #12
IMO, none of these "bailouts" are about bailing out the "fat cats"..
they are about bailing out REGULAR PEOPLE! you and me..
because if the Govt "bails out" the auto makers, people keep their jobs..
same with banks and wall street...many thousands of jobs are at stake..

I agree that ideally the government should not bail out ANYONE! ever!
no buisness, no wall street, no individuals losing their homes to foreclosure, no auto makers..
but we arent living in "ideal" times..

and for me the question is..
which would be worse?
bailout or no bailout?

I think NOT doing the bailouts would be far worse in the long run..
yeah, the bailouts are a bad idea..but no bailouts is a WORSE idea..

the bailouts are the lesser of two evils..

I work at a big corporation..which has laid off 75% of its workforce over the last 10 years..
my wife was one..im next.
the odds are very high we will BOTH be unemployed within the next 6 months..
which means selling the house, selling off half our possesions, renting a one bedroom apartment,
and trying to get a job at starbucks at $8 an hour..IF they are hiring...which is unlikely.

even though no govt bailout will save MY job..I understand how all the autoworkers must feel..
the auto bailout would help the entire economy..which might help me find a new job..
which means the auto bailout could maybe end up being good for my personal economy..

If the auto companys crash and burn..we are all even MORE screwed that we are already..

I dont like the bailouts either...but whats the alternative?
we are all on the verge of being seriously screwed..
the government is trying to do SOMTHING to prevent things getting worse..

if you feel your job is stable, you are very lucky..
and in the minority..


Scot
 
  • #13
I know several people who receive welfare and subsidized apartments because they are poor... or rather officially they are poor (like they get a check at work for $160 a week, but in reality get around 20k a month deposited into a bank account not in their name, but to which they have access).

oh please..
people on welfare getting 20k a month??
from where?
who is giving them 20k a month?

20k a month is a DOCTOR salary!
thats 240k a year!

I highly doubt there are companys willing to pay "Joe Welfare" $240,000 a year for his job, whatever it might be..
it doesnt happen..

Scot
 
  • #14
Read my post again if you can't get it...
 
  • #16
Ok.
Suppose I am a CEO of a company that pays rent for its buildings in one month more than you make in a year (trust me on this one, unless you're a doctor) And my official salary is 100 a week. So even though I am the CEO, the company only makes enough to pay me this.
Now another guy, who lives in another country (and just so happens is my relative/friend/someone I can completely trust) is doing very important work for the company, and receives 20k a month for it deposited into his bank account, which is here, and I am the other name on this account...
So officially I am poor as kenny, but in reality...
Another scenario: I make money, so I have to pay tens of thousands in taxes. What do I do? I open a non-profit organization in, say Florida, get tax exemption for it and vola! I donate my taxes to a charity of which I am the only member (or co-member with my family).
I say I because it is easier than saying Mr. X. If I was doing this, I don't think I'd live in a tiny apartment on a 4th floor with no elevator and grow CPs in a shoe rack.
Welcome to the world of money, where greed is the only rule.

Or on the other hand, this scenario: I came to this country like a year ago, I don't even speak English, and the government generously gave me all the medical benefits, welfare, food stamps and an apartment in manhattan, or more commonly, brooklyn. My kids live here (also on welfare while working for cash), so I go on and live with them, while renting this apartment to other people. And I've not worked a day in this country (for check), I've never payed taxes here (because I work for cash), but I live on tax money of people who worked all their lives and have less than I do.
This is true, believe me.
People are leeching our money. If welfare was received only by need and deserve it, there would be billions floating around.
 
  • #17
Dimka if you know about these people why arent you turning them in for tax evasion. Using someone else money in that from has to be claimed on tax returns as gifts, and therefore would put them above the limit for welfare and get them off the gov't rolls. Also renting a subsidized apartment to someone else is illegal as well, turn these people in. If your not reporting them then you have no right to complain one bit about them. complacency just makes you a will participant in this scam.

My biggest issue with the govt helping out the automakers is they arent doing the one thing they need to do which is force the UAW to accept reasonable wages and medical benefits. I grew up in a town (in Michigan) with a originally GM plant, then Delphi before it closed and I can remember a couple of occasions where production shut down due to strikes over ridiculous things like the prescription co-pay going from .50 to 1.00. The UAW legacy costs, which dictate that retired workers get the same medical coverage they had when working for the rest of their lives is costing the big three ridiculous amounts of money. Making cars in this country can still be profitable just look at the Japanese auto makers who produce many of their parts in the US and assemble their cars in the US. Whats the major difference? Japanese manufactures dont have the UAW making ridiculous demands. As long as the UAW exists in my opinion anything the big three auto makers do is only a stop gap measure till they get into the same mess they are in now.

They irony of this whole bail out is that they are doing it for the average worker even though in this case they have had a large part in creating this mess.
 
  • #18
Probably THE most popular scam for couples among certain people here in NYC to get welfare is as follows.
A couple, live together for many years, have children (and oh yes, they mate like rabbits) etc, but do not get officially married. The father works, gets money (sometimes more, sometimes less) while mother files for welfare as a poor single mother, officially residing with her parents. She gets more help for every child.
Well in any case, just heard on the radio: One such couple got caught on that scam because the poor single mother traveled to Spain like 5 times in the past 8 months. In any case, the services decided to investigate it, and found out she lives with a man who makes 100K a year. They did paternity test, and all three or so children are his. Both of them could get up to 8 years in prison now. IMO this is well deserved and should also have all their possessions seized.
Hurray!
 
  • #19
Well, of course all those white-collar guys need help - money is really heavy! They need to be able to pay someone to help them carry it, otherwise it wouldn't be any use to them.
~Joe
 
  • #20
CURSE you disabled people in wheelchairs. All you do is sit around!

Note that I said "lazy" and not disabled.

A little reading comprehension there...

hehe......... ;)
 
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