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Thread: More Welfare for Wallstreet

  1. #1
    swords's Avatar
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    More Welfare for Wallstreet

    Well the Feds are working on getting together a few hundred billion to bail out the auto industry.

    I am all for the feds supplying health care and welfare for individual people who need it, but then I always put people before power. I feel it is the duty of the Gov't to assist it's disenfranchised citizens and get them back on their feet. Whether this includes day care, health care, food stamps or schooling, it doesn't matter to me. Whatever it takes to get them up and productive as working / contributing citizens again and off the dole is what should be done. But this welfare for already wealthy corporations is getting ridiculous. At least in the "good old days" Gov't and big business kept their hanky panky behind closed doors and it took a Noam Chomsky or someone like that to show us how to figure out what they're up to. Nowadays they're "doing it" right in our living rooms every night on the news and we get to watch.

    Nobody bails out Jerry the Orchids Ltd guy or Gary who owns the Wet Pet aquarium store if their businesses should go belly up, which is fine, business is a risk even though these two are my pals and I'd hate to see them fail. I can't go along with bailing out any industries, or at the least, those who wish to remain deregulated or "free market". Minnesota's own NWA airlines seems to have been the real precedent setter in all of this when they got the bailout for pensions and operating costs so the CEOs could continue their lifestyles.

    They also just caught some of the top pigs over at AIG enjoying a spa retreat on video after they got their first bailout while they're asking for another one.

    (and on top of all that, The Daily Show / Colbert Report is reruns this week.... wait, just Monday! )

  2. #2
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    Sigh. Did anyone NOT see this coming?

    Your tax dollars at work, folks!
    17 Nash Rd.
    North Salem, NY 10560

    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

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    Lover of Mountains nightsky's Avatar
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    Great. More money I can't spare going into other peoples pockets. IMO, no one person or corporation should be bailed out ever. I really hate bailouts!!

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    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    I don't really believe the auto corps need the bailout.
    Their CEO's alone bank accounts could probably bail out the entire country. I suppose it is all tied up on the top somewhere, so we, on the bottom, have to give our tax money so that the "fat-cats" do not have to lighten their wallets... heh
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

    An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
    - Terry Pratchett

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    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    But since its at the top, that means it will trickle-down! Ok, thats enough politics for one day.

    So I am mixed on this. These companies are going down and besides a slight nostalgia factor I feel nothing for them. Why should these guys get a bailout?

    But at the same time, there will be a lot of people out of work. A LOT. In a region that needs those jobs. I dunno...
    that makes no logic

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    herenorthere's Avatar
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    It's especially aggravating when you consider how much the automakers spent on lobbying to prevent fuel economy standards from being raised. Let's think this through ... if they had accepted stricter standards then, they would have invested in developing cars that would be more appealing to buyers now. So let's reward them not just for being stupid, but for being stupid and manipulative.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Lover of Mountains nightsky's Avatar
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    the REAL cost of these bailouts!

    http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/126117/Bailout-Price-Tag-3.5T-So-Far-But-%27Real%27-Cost-May-Be-Much-Higher?tickers=AIG,FNM,FRE,XLF,^DJI,^GSPC,C


    While the government is clearly spending a lot of taxpayers' money to bail out financial firms, the tally is even bigger than most Americans (economists and pundits included) are probably aware or willing to admit.

    The bailout bonanza has gotten so big and happened so fast it's the true cost often gets lost in the discussion. Maybe Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke prefer it that way because the tally so far is nearly $3.5 trillion, and that's before a likely handout for the auto industry.

    Yes, $3.45 trillion has already been spent, as Bailoutsleuth.com details:

    $2T Emergency Fed Loans (the ones the Fed won't discuss, as detailed here)
    $700B TARP (designed to buy bad debt, the fund is rapidly transforming as we'll discuss in an upcoming segment)
    $300B Hope Now (the government's year-old attempt at mortgage workouts)
    $200B Fannie/Freddie
    $140B Tax Breaks for Banks (WaPo has the details)
    $110B: AIG (with it's new deal this week, the big insurer got $40B of TARP money, plus $110B in other relief)
    Tallying up the "true" cost of the bailout is difficult, and won't be known for months if not years. But considering $3.5 trillion is about 25% of the U.S. economy ($13.8 trillion in 2007) and the U.S. deficit may hit $1 trillion in fiscal 2009, hyperinflation and/or sharply higher interest rates seem likely outcomes down the road.

    At the very least, the possibility of the U.S. losing its vaunted Aaa credit rating -- which determines the Treasury's borrowing costs -- cannot be discounted.

    Moody's has already said it's not in jeopardy of being lowered. But we really can't put much stock in what Moody's -- or S&P or Fitch -- say after the subprime debacle, can we? More importantly, the price of credit default swaps on U.S. government debt has been on the rise since the bailout train got rolling, as Barron's reports.



    Stop the madness! We are bankrupting ourselves!

  8. #8
    celox's Avatar
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    Well if they didn't invest in the auto industry thousands of people would loose their job. All of them going on welfare, wich in the end could quite possibly cost way more than what they invested now to save the auto industry.
    Same thing with all the banks and insurance companies, if you let those go bankrupt the whole economy will plumit to the ground, and jerry the orchid ltd guy would go out of money aswell.

    You say in your post that you are all for getting people back on their feet, what your goverment did here was to prevent them from falling over in the first place (I'm not talking about the traders who made millions, no, i'm talking about the thousand of employees that work for those industries)

    I do agree that alot of things could've been done better, but you shouldn't forget that these are unstable economic times and the government has to react fast, and might not have enough time to double check other possibilities.
    I do agree that it is unfair that some CEO's and Traders get such giant saleries, that's absurd. But thats also part of the 'free market' you just said you thought was the ideal and we shouldn't regulate it.
    I also agree that that kind of support isn't ideal, but unless you really want to go bankrupt, I suggest you learn to live with it, because otherwise thousands and millions of people (those who lost their jobs, those who lost their money because banks go bankrupt and the list goes on) will have to turn to the government and in a long term scenario (or even short term) could cost way more. It wouldn't alone put a large strain on those who do still have jobs (taxes), but in the end it will bankrupt the entire country

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