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Thread: Is this legal?

  1. #33
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Swords, you've only traced your family back to a crusader in 1040? We've traced ours to a cyanobacter and archaeobacter who met near Greenland in 2,812,232,567 BP. Darned horizontal gene transfer makes it impossible to go back any further. One was named Adam and the other was Eve, but we aren't sure which was which. What was this thread about? Oh yeah, porn. I think a major reason many places keep it out of reach is so kids don't shoplift it. I guess that's doing double-duty in protecting the morals of youth.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #34
    swords's Avatar
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    LOL! Herenorthere
    Well, as I said, it was my Mormon relatives (great aunts/uncles) who live in Yucca Valley Cali. who are into that stuff and make that a mission of theirs. I don't know enough about Mormons and why they take interest in genealogy so much. Since my grandma has the stuff in boxes in her attic that they sent her she borrowed it to me for putting together the report.

  3. #35
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Mormons are into genealogy because they track their ancestors back through time so they can retroactively baptize them as Mormons. Imagine the surprise for someone like your crusader distant ancestor, who's having a relaxing glass of wine in Catholic heaven when *POOF* he suddenly reappears in Mormon heaven. He won't even be able to get a cup of coffee the next morning. Someone is going to get haunted for sure. It's never struck me as a good idea and I can't help but wonder about the repercussions.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #36
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    You are only illustrating the point of psychologists further Baylor. We need to analyze the backgrounds of those who become addicted and more often than not, we'll find extreme emotional imprints and conditioning attached to the sex drives of these people who become so affected by pornography (or become sex addicts in general). As you pointed out, a fixation on sex is a definite problem as much as a fear of it. However, it's never as simple as someone seeing a playboy or naughty DVD and suddenly they're a flasher on the subway or involved some other criminal sexual activity. There are always effects of causation leading up to extremes in behavior.

    It is not the images themselves which cause the neuroses.

    As far as belief in the "sacredness" of sex or the human body in general, that's a metaphysical concept and like any metaphysical concept, this belief varies from person to person.
    Swords -

    I agree this is a metaphysical concept. Some ancient religions had sex in the forefront of their culture for everyone to see and appeased their gods by having zealots have sexual relations in front of the statue. My own view is a steep departure from this other religion. This is my own view, and I consent that it is part of my specific worldview.

    Just to ensure I understand where you are originating your point from, are you saying that allowing pornography to be displayed in the manner that this posts states is justified because we need the test subjects to look into the psychological implications?

    Let us throw the addiction aspect of it to the curbside for now. Other studies that must be done (if not already) should look into any correlation between young adults that so often look at pornography and teenage pregnancies. The best possible chance to avoid STDs is to simply encourage a behavior of abstinence. Does having slack restrictions on pornography seem to support abstinence or is it counterproductive?

  5. #37
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    I have two little girls, and I have to say that Swords hit the nail on the head.

    Baylorguy, your oppinion, I assume, is religious based. If you are basing that oppinon on the bible, or any religious text/ideology, it immediately renders your argument irrelevant in a court of law. The onus would be on you to produce EVIDENCE that the porn is harmful.

    The idea that porn is an addiction is a straw man argument. No, it's not. Once CAN be addicted to it, but it is NOT an addiction in and of itself.

    Alcohol and cigarets are out for all to see, and are far more addictive than porn since they have a chemical nature to them as well.

    The idea there is that why should the masses, who can handle it responsible, suffer because the minority cannot?

    Granted, as I just posted to Swords. My opinion is deeply rooted in my worldview (religion). I feel pornorgraphy is correlated to many of the problems we have with young adults. Yes, addictions exist in other things that can destroy the body such as alchohol and cigarettes, and just like with pornography, I am not alone in wanting to have high standards. It has been a political discussion for years.

    No, it won't stand in a court of law, but what is legal is not necessarily ethical. I take issue at times with what is deemed as "legal." I expected a response like yours, which is why I stated "At the risk of being unpopular."

    The argument of the many being penalized because of the few is one I can't disprove; I will simply say the behavior itself is irresponsible (and i mean no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise).

  6. #38
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    I think abstinence-based programs have been pretty thoroughly discredited.

    As for porn, I have to confess that I really don't see the attraction. It was kind of embarassing when I moved into a fraternity my second semester of college and my new issues of Road & Track and Fur, Fish & Game stuck out like a sore thumb next to the stacks of Playboy and even more anatomical magazines the mailman delivered to seemingly everyone else. But I'm comfortable with it now and tell people I don't see the point of drooling my way through the photos in Gourmet magazine when there are so many good restaurants.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #39
    swords's Avatar
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    Just to ensure I understand where you are originating your point from, are you saying that allowing pornography to be displayed in the manner that this posts states is justified because we need the test subjects to look into the psychological implications?
    I'm sorry but I don't believe you're grasping what I'm saying at all.

    Psychologists do not need to generate neuroses on a freelance basis, people are well equipped to produce their own from upbringings where something is considered verboten (talked about excessively, demonized and forbidden) and made into a taboo. Taboos can often lead to extreme behavior in many regards, not just sex, but drugs, alcohol, dating, music, tattoos, piercings, etc. Taboos are fun for kids to break as acts of rebellion but some of the larger ones such as sex can often become neuroses leading to dangerous activities later in life. Most particularly when the person begins to feel guilty for enjoying things he "knows" (i.e. believes) is wrong because of messages imprinted as a youth by his authority figures that "this is wrong, dirty, evil, wicked, etc". Yet his human nature keeps telling him it is perfectly natural to have these desires be they sexual or other forms of harmless natural amusement. Thus, this person's consciousness is in a constant struggle. This leads to a general unhappiness in life and the eventual acting out such as the destroyed marriages and as you describe, or rapes and worse that I mentioned.

    Let me attempt to make this clearer for you, not making something into a taboo does not automatically mean praising it above all other concepts. and not giving age appropriate answers. This extreme jump from one end of the spectrum to the other is part of the prevailing western thought process which is known as "Aristotelian" or "either / or" logic.

    Aristotelian logic (developed by Aristotle) states that if something is not completely good, it must be completely evil. If something is not white, it must be black, if you are anti-sex ed and also anti-porn and someone else is pro-sex ed ergo they must want to show pornography to children, etc. Everything in the either / or thought system is divided into stark metaphysical absolutes. This way of thinking leaves no room for learning or intellectual growth and can be the source of much neuroses. Much of the philosophy of everyday life in mixed cultures such as ours, is actually grey area and absolutes may be applicable to some but are not absolutes to others. As far as the gas station in question, if you know about it and have these hangups you always have option of not patronizing that particular station.

    Abstinence Only "education" seems to me the effect of an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand believing that since he can't see danger, the danger is gone. I've always said the best sex education I ever got was when our 10th grade class went on a field trip to the STD clinic for a tour and description / slide show by one of the doctors. Talk about an eye opener!

  8. #40
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    I have two little girls, and I have to say that Swords hit the nail on the head.

    Baylorguy, your oppinion, I assume, is religious based. If you are basing that oppinon on the bible, or any religious text/ideology, it immediately renders your argument irrelevant in a court of law. The onus would be on you to produce EVIDENCE that the porn is harmful.
    What evidence do you have that porn is not harmful? What is your opinion based on, use? It is undeniable that porn has a negative effect on Women ie. what they're supposed to look like and how they're supposed to act. I would NEVER expose my child, especially daughters to pornographic materials.

    Lastly it isn't a mistake that the pornographic industry makes more money a year than professional baseball, basketball and football combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    The idea that porn is an addiction is a straw man argument. No, it's not. Once CAN be addicted to it, but it is NOT an addiction in and of itself.
    Explain the purpose of porn then. Isn't there something more to porn than just watching it like a sports show? Doesn't it create sexual arousal?

    Isn't sex addictive? How isn't porn? Aren't they both means of gratification, which effect chemicals in the brain like a drug?

    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    Alcohol and cigarets are out for all to see, and are far more addictive than porn since they have a chemical nature to them as well.
    The brain, specifically the hypothalamus, does not have a drive for drinking alcohol or smoking cigarets, but guess what it does have? A drive for sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    The idea there is that why should the masses, who can handle it responsible, suffer because the minority cannot?
    How is it responsible to expose a child to pornographic content at a gas station? Responsibility would imply that pornography should be only accessible by adults of age who choose to partake. It saddens me that the majority of the people who responded in this thread sees nothing wrong with exposing minors, CHILDREN, to pornography.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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