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Thread: Rarely seen WWII tools of warfare

  1. #17
    swords's Avatar
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    Yes, it is a shame that a symbol used by almost all humans since prehistoric times could be used for 15-20 years politically and ruined for essentially the rest of human history. Thanks to the current neo-Nazi movement many of the classic pagan Celtic / Viking symbols are falling prey to this trend of becoming ideologically linked to right-wing political and religious groups.

    The Swastika: Symbol Beyond Redemption?
    by Stephen Heller is an interesting read on the subject even if I don't agree with all his personal conclusions at the end. Mainly he concludes with the idea that certain people have a right to try to reclaim the symbol and use it to make (anti-fascist) statements and certain people don't... even if the statements are essentially the same. That in itself seems a bit "fascist" to me! lol!
    Minus the last two opinion soaked chapters however, it's a very interesting book on the history of the symbol itself and of course it's more nefarious modern use. Lots of images I've never seen before as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    You forgot the rest of the story though..
    the cars might be similar..but what happened to the occupants is very different..

    I assume you are not actually trying to compare modern POW's in Afghanistan and their treatment by US forces to Jews and their treatment by the Nazis during WWII.
    no one could really be that sick and demented..so im just going to assume you meant no such comparison..

    Scot
    No, but we must remain vigilant. Study 1930's Germany and then look at the last 8 years of the US politics and you will see some scary parallels. Remember the Nazis took power through the democratic process set up in Germany.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #19
    swords's Avatar
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    to the general war topic:
    All wars are fought over ideologies (enforcing political or religious philosophy) or 'economics' which is the expansion / acquisition of capital be it political or monetary. There are no other reasons, except the disguised excuses dished out by politicians, which can be legion. Simply examine the "excuses" for any war or action by any government with the question of "who profits?" (philosophically or monetarily) and you will begin to understand what I'm saying. In my eyes, all victims of war are the same, to indicate one victim group suffers more than another seems to me rather silly.

    As far as Americans being able to "defend themselves against an out of control system" or sway the system once it's determined to put something in motion is a nice fantasy (especially of the gun people) but not something I've ever seen happen. For an example, the civil war was crushed and it involved nearly 1/2 the country and was 120+ years ago with nearly non-existent communications technology (pony express?). Any revolution to actually stop the activities of a malevolent US government today would have to be nothing short of a total and instantaneous "transformation" of national consciousness. In other words a "miracle". lol!

    However the governments ability to perform that same transformational consciousness changing trick on the country is almost as miraculous until you understand how it works. There's a reason the government is referred to by some as a machine. All the aspects (parts) of the government PR engine working together; media + linguistics (labels), semiotics (symbols) and semantics (perception changing words) used by those in positions of "power" and "authority" can easily change a nations 'will'. They will make you believe it's your idea and of course the best ("only") option available. As a people, we believe we'd see it coming (some nefarious domestic political power) but I am not so sure, and I'm less sure about that all the time.

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    My comment on all this neat stuff is if as much ingenuity had/is put into things like our educational system, Green technology, social issues, and all the other things cool....the world would be a lot better of a place!
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  5. #21
    throckmoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nflytrap View Post
    My comment on all this neat stuff is if as much ingenuity had/is put into things like our educational system, Green technology, social issues, and all the other things cool....the world would be a lot better of a place!
    True enough, if Obama announced to the auto manufacturers right now that the only way they would get bailout money under his reign would be by making no car in 2009 with a fuel efficiency of under 40 mpg, then it would be so. Money may not be able to buy anything but if something CAN be changed and there is enough money wagered on it, it WILL be changed. Stand up and ask for your piece of the bailout, ask the federal government to buy you a Nepenthes!!!

  6. #22
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    NFT is absolutely correct. I grew up in awe of military technology and seeing every air show that came anywhere near us. It took me too long to realize what is lost when so much of our resources are directed in that direction. I'm glad the German museum has the boxcar as a cold shower to temper the militaristic arousal. Everyone should stand alone in there before leaving and there should be one at every military exhibit, airshow, etc. People won't all get it the way Av8tor1 did, but it'll offer some perspective to a lot of them.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #23
    swords's Avatar
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    "National security is the chief cause of national insecurity."
    -Buckminster Fuller

    If you take a single dollar and divide it by "defense spending" it illustrates a point nicely.
    "Defense" takes up 78% or $0.78 of every tax dollar, goes to defense spending. Which includes: international and domestic espionage or "national security", weapons / technology R & D, etc. The final 22% or the last $0.22 of each tax dollar, has to pay for everything else: schools, infrastructure, welfare, medical science, etc.

    This is the sort of spending that goes on even in "peacetime". There are those who wish to increase defense spending and reduce the other % even further. Just imagine how the conditions of living in this country could be improved if those figures were reversed for only one year. I should note these figs are from before the war on terror. I've no idea how much additional spending % has been added. The fact we're in the tank to China for most of the cost of the Iraq war is a good indication to me that we're not even able to spend enough of our own money anymore on the fantasy of omnipresence.

    I like Obama less with every person he appoints to cabinet positions, the idea of creating more Tsars and keeping the ones we already have... So we'll just have to see what happens. My love affair with the idea of him actually achieving the presidency is over, now he has to prove something to me. With my Cynicism, he has a lot of work ahead of him to earn that vote I cast for him. lol!

  8. #24
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    I didn't realize the Nazis employed midget subs. They were used at the beginning of the conflict between Japan and America at Pearl Harbor with lackluster results. Certainly good for more short term missions (such as defensive as you mentioned).

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