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Thread: Calling all Mycorrhizal Users

  1. #17
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    Dionae,

    Two totally different things... Trichoderma physically coils around the pathogen and starts to dissolve the cell walls. (in addition to other phyto-antagonistic and plant beneficial traits)

    ( Ive read the paper you are referring too, and it sort of lumps all cp's together, too broad of a statement IMHO.... As an example the roots of heliamphora and cephalotus differ tremendously from most nepenthes)

    Cephalotus gets over 70% of nutrient ions from its roots whereas some other cp species gets less then 20%

    The roots of carnivorous plants
    Wolfram Adlassnig1, Marianne Peroutka1, Hans Lambers2 & Irene K. Lichtscheidl1,3
    1Institute of Ecology and Conservation Biology, University of Vienna, Althanstrasse 14, 1090 Vienna,
    Austria. 2School of Plant Biology, Faculty of Natural and Agricultural Sciences, The University of
    Western Australia, Crawley WA 6009, Australia. 3Corresponding author*
    Received 30 April 2004. Accepted in revised form 31 August 2004


    Look at the microphotogrpahy images of the coiling in the next two research papers

    TRICHODERMA SPECIES —
    OPPORTUNISTIC,AVIRULENT
    PLANT SYMBIONTS


    In Vivo Study of Trichoderma-Pathogen-Plant Interactions, Using
    Constitutive and Inducible Green Fluorescent Protein
    Reporter Systems


    Interaction of Ammonium, Glucose, and Chitin Regulates the
    Expression of Cell Wall-Degrading Enzymes in
    Trichoderma atroviride Strain P1


    W. Schulze á E.D. Schulze á J.S. Pate á A.N. Gillison
    The nitrogen supply from soils and insects during growth
    of the pitcher plants Nepenthes mirabilis, Cephalotus follicularis
    and Darlingtonia californica


    Ecophysiological characterization of carnivorous plant roots:
    oxygen fluxes, respiration, and water exudation
    L. ADAMEC
    Section of Plant Ecology, Institute of Botany, Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic,
    Dukelská 135, CZ-37982 Třeboň, Czech Republic


    Leaf absorption of mineral nutrients in carnivorous plants
    stimulates root nutrient uptake
    Lubomír Adamec
    Institute of Botany of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, Section of Plant Ecology, Dukelská 135, CZ-379 82 Trebonˇ , Czech Republic


    Mineral Nutrition of Carnivorous Plants - A Review
    Lubomír ADAMEC
    Adamec L., 1997. Mineral nutrition of carnivorous plants: A review. Bot. Rev. 63: 273-299.
    Institute of Botany of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, Section of Plant Ecology, Dukelská 145, CZ-379 82 Třeboň, Czech Republic; fax 0042-333-721136



    I have more research but cant post links due to copyright issues.... pm me if you want them
    Last edited by Av8tor1; 04-06-2011 at 09:03 PM.

  2. #18
    sarracenia lover dionae's Avatar
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    Let me read over these for the next few days and i'll reply then.

    Btw, I know trich and myco are different. I was just saying I cant find anything on trich and CPs specifically. The link I left above was the only thing I could find on CPs and Myco and if you look closely they actually have the CPs in seperate families-Droseraceae, Drosophyllaceae, Lentibulariaceae, Nepenthaceae and Sarraceniaceae.

    I'd still like to read any studies done on CPs and beneficial fungi specifically. If you ever run across any could you pls PM me links? Thanks for the reads!

  3. #19
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    Yes, but the author makes broad statements such as:

    The nutritional functions of roots are replaced by insect traps in these species, so mycorrhizas have become redundant

    but then he goes on to say:

    Less is known about mycorrhizas of insectivorous plants with "pitfall traps" where insects are digested (Sarracenia, Darlingtonia, Nepenthes, etc.), but it is expected they primarily obtain nutrients by carnivory. The unique Western Australian carnivorous plants Cephalotis follicularis (Cephalotaceae) and Byblis spp. (Byblidaceae), which are illustrated below, are also likely to be NM.

    The more recent research has shown its not a case of either/or... but a cse of both and with a great deal of variance among species.

    I know of no specific trich/cp studies.... but IMHO since the trich is also attacking the pahtogen directly, I dont see where this would be a major criteria unless the pathogen was unique to cp's.

    but that is just my humble opinion and nothing more

    as Nan so wisely stated, your milage may vary

    Av

  4. #20
    The Consuming Flame EdaxFlamma's Avatar
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    I'm working with the USDA involving the benefits of mycorrhizal infections in Vaccinium (cranberry, blueberry etc) and we tested a decent number of commercially inoculum and found that many of the fungi present weren't what they claimed on the package. Whether due to their method of packaging, quality control or some other reason, there were all kinds of different fungi in the mixes. If you have the change to plate some out you might be surprised. I personally am pretty skeptical unless I've isolated it myself and even then my skills and the mycorrhizae business in general are still so muddy I don't think I'd subject my plants to something like that.

    Now wouldn't it be great if we had someone go out and isolate mycorrhizae from the roots of some CPs and get a specialized mix just for us... I can keep dreaming haha.
    Trying to rebuild. Feel free to PM me with questions.

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  5. #21
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdaxFlamma View Post
    I'm working with the USDA involving the benefits of mycorrhizal infections in Vaccinium (cranberry, blueberry etc) and we tested a decent number of commercially inoculum and found that many of the fungi present weren't what they claimed on the package. Whether due to their method of packaging, quality control or some other reason, there were all kinds of different fungi in the mixes. If you have the change to plate some out you might be surprised. I personally am pretty skeptical unless I've isolated it myself and even then my skills and the mycorrhizae business in general are still so muddy I don't think I'd subject my plants to something like that.

    Now wouldn't it be great if we had someone go out and isolate mycorrhizae from the roots of some CPs and get a specialized mix just for us... I can keep dreaming haha.
    It has been my experience that this is likely true with Trichoderma products as well... I tried many products from many vendors before I found the product/vendor combination that gave me consistant results and excellent customer support.

  6. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdaxFlamma View Post
    Now wouldn't it be great if we had someone go out and isolate mycorrhizae from the roots of some CPs
    I can't begin to tell you how close this was to being my thesis...

  7. #23
    The Consuming Flame EdaxFlamma's Avatar
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    Haha I wanted to see if the chitinases found in drosera dew drops could be used as a fungicide - haven't gotten their quite yet haha. Next time I'm in the lab though I'll see if I can grab a couple of ditch dews on my way to work and look for mycorrhizae. A lot of the cranberry I sampled had Drosera right along side it so there might very well be some. The roots probably aren't fibrous enough.... although that doesn't stop wintergreen.... hmmm I have a fun side project now!!!
    Trying to rebuild. Feel free to PM me with questions.

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  8. #24
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    Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in response; I was at work for 12 hours, unable to respond... On the other hand, I'm glad that this discussion has been revitalized...

    Okay, before I post more details, I did want to address one specific post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Av8tor1 View Post
    Please post any details you have available.... there are many strains of trichoderma and a greater number of products with varying inerts being used. Some of which are probably not Cp safe.
    So, I read that, and it had me thinking... The dying seedlings in that pot do resemble the way that a D. capensis I had also died, one that had been inadvertently fertilized...

    Now, both VFT seedling pots sit in a rectangular tupperware with several other CP pots, all tray watered... (I routinely test the rainwater that I use for watering. Always ~10 ppm.) Today I tested the water in the tupperware... ~125 ppm. I immediately emptied it, refilled it with fresh water. After 10 minutes, the tupperware water measured at ~25ppm.

    So, I IMMEDIATELY removed both the dying VFT pot and the gemmae pot (that I mentioned in an earlier post), replaced the water in the tupperware for the remaining plants. The water tested ~15 ppm.

    I top-watered the dying VFT pot to test the water that flushed through the soil. First rinse? A whopping ~350 ppm. I almost dropped the pot.

    I did serial flushes of the pot and tested the runoff each time. It slowly went down from ~350 to ~300 to ~250 to ~95 to ~75 to ~49 to ~35.

    Based on this, I think it's safe to say that it may not have been the tricho/myco themselves, but rather whatever heinous inorganics were in the powder that contained it... and I thank everyone for their posts. It probably would have taken a few more days for me to think of that on my own, at which point the remaining CPs in that tupperware might have all started dying...

    As to the dying VFT pot, I've placed it (and the gemmae pot) in individual reservoirs of fresh water... It may be too late for those seedlings, but such is the price of experience... Still, I hope they pull through.

    Okay, so what batch of tricho/mycor did this beginner purchase?

    Well, I looked for a cheap soil inoculant on eBay that would available for purchase in a small quantity for me to try out... I don't want to name specific sellers (for any number of reasons), but I'll at least copy the text of the listing... It follows in my next post...
    Last edited by jonnyq; 04-07-2011 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Removed the word "dastardly." It was meant whimsically, but could be taken as criticism of the product rather than myself...

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