Some animals that Photosynthesize . ..

[BigBella]

Here are a few of my miscellaneous underwater photographs (mostly shot at about 20 meters or so), depicting some animals -- those various anemones seen below -- which actually "photosynthesize a bit," due to algae which live symbiotically in their tissues. So, here we have animals who masquerade -- to a slight degree -- as plants. Sound familiar? The largest anemones, Tealia, can actually capture and eat fish, and are about the diameter of a dinner plate.

There is absolutely no excuse for the octopus shot. But who here doesn't really like an octopus, huh?

Tealia with Sponges

Tealia

Corynactis

Seacape "C" (Carmel, CA)

Two-Spotted Octopus (Santa Cruz Island, CA)

 

[Finch]

Ah, all are very beautiful.

Though I would argue that it is the algae that is the only one photosynthesizing.

 

[BigBella]

Ah, all are very beautiful.

Though I would argue that it is the algae that is the only one photosynthesizing.

Well, you could further argue that your mitochondria (inextricably intertwined within us and once thought to have been symbionts themselves) -- and not you -- are producing your chemical energy, if you wish to go that far . . .

The anemones do obtain a fair percentage of their caloric intake from the algae's photosynthesis; and while the animals don't photosynthesize directly -- studies have shown that, when their symbiotic algae was "starved" for light, it also adversely affected the anemones as well. They actually lost weight more rapidly than they would have otherwise . . .

 

[joossa]

Ahh... the joys of Endosymbiotic Theory....


Great pictures!!

 

[Finch]

Well, you could further argue that your mitochondria (inextricably intertwined within us and once thought to have been symbionts themselves) -- and not you -- are producing your chemical energy, if you wish to go that far . . .

The anemones do obtain a fair percentage of their caloric intake from the algae's photosynthesis; and while the animals don't photosynthesize directly -- studies have shown that, when their symbiotic algae was "starved" for light, it also adversely affected the anemones as well. They actually lost weight more rapidly than they would have otherwise . . .

But it is not the same, as mitochondria is no longer a distinct and independent organism. Many of its genes have migrated to our own nucleus, so they are is in a way the algae for these animals are not,

 

[BigBella]

Ahh... the joys of Endosymbiotic Theory....


Great pictures!!

Thanks. I am a biologist myself, but get a few groups of scientists together, and you may as well be arguing theology when it comes to theory and precedence . . .

How many mitochondria fit on the head of a pin?

 

[BigBella]

But it is not the same, as mitochondria is no longer a distinct and independent organism. Many of its genes have migrated to our own nucleus, so they are is in a way the algae for these animals are not,

It is not the same but it is analogous. The anemones will not survive without the presence of the algae for long (many line their gastrodermal -- digestive -- tract); and how the algae is acquired is still a bone of contention, and it is possibly going down the same route as ancient mitochondria once did (if you subscribe to that). Perhaps plants don't photosynthesize either; their chloroplasts do. No, wait weren't they once simply cyanobacteria . . .

It's all a matter of when you take that picture in evolutionary time, at which point the mitochondria is no longer a visitor but a squatter. When does that acquisition become a permanent feature or an organelle?


I recall answering someone's question about photosynthesis last year and I gave an abbreviated answer (so as not to usher up the international masturbatory gesture), and was called on it. My only desire, than as now, was not to be mind-numbingly boring and argue the number of angels on heads of pins . . .

 

[theyellowdart]

Very nice shots. Where were these taken? Somewhere in the Caribbean, or in the Pacific?
Do these anemones contain the same zooxanthellae found in most corals?

 

[BigBella]

Very nice shots. Where were these taken? Somewhere in the Caribbean, or in the Pacific?
Do these anemones contain the same zooxanthellae found in most corals?

The photos were all taken in Northern and Southern California; and the anemones contain the same forms of zooxanthellae and zoochlorellae of corals. After all, anemones and corals are in the same phylum -- and are really oversized coral polyps (after a fashion) . . .

 

[theyellowdart]

The photos were all taken in Northern and Southern California; and the anemones contain the same forms of zooxanthellae and zoochlorellae of corals. After all, anemones and corals are in the same phylum -- and are really oversized coral polyps (after a fashion) . . .

Oh, ok.
For some reason, I tend to think of anemones as a completely seperate group. I guess anything that [frequently] walks around, looks like a plant/coral, and eats relatively large fish is different in my book. lol

Are you into reef tanks?

 

[BigBella]

Oh, ok.
For some reason, I tend to think of anemones as a completely seperate group. I guess anything that [frequently] walks around, looks like a plant/coral, and eats relatively large fish is different in my book. lol

Are you into reef tanks?

Most anemones seldom move much -- except in "clone wars" -- and are generally sessile. As far as feeding on things, corals simply feed on tiny planktonic organisms and depend upon their algae for the balance. So, an anemone or a solitary coral is simply scaled-up coral (after a fashion) and jellies are planktonic -- wandering -- forms of the same . . .

No reef tanks for me. I live on the Pacific and that is quite enough . . .

 

[Finch]

It's all a matter of when you take that picture in evolutionary time, at which point the mitochondria is no longer a visitor but a squatter. When does that acquisition become a permanent feature or an organelle?

When both cannot preform simple metabolic functions without one another's aid. It is not the strictly analogous, because the algae not only can but usually does function without the protection of the anemone. The anemone simply obtains the initial algae from its surroundings- the two are not interdependent. Beneficial partnership, yes, but not necessary for one of the members. That hardly counts as an organelle.

 

[EdaxFlamma]

Also several species of Nudibranch (sea slugs) can photosynthesize because they eat cnidaria (ie corals hydras etc) and algae and somehow assimilate both the chloroplasts (some times the whole algae) and nematocysts (unfired!) into their bodies. The nematocysts are incorporated into their epidermis and the chloroplasts go directly into the intestinal tract. Very interesting and beautiful group of creatures.

Marine biology was my thing before I got into plants haha.
-J.P.

 

[BigBella]

When both cannot preform simple metabolic functions without one another's aid. It is not the strictly analogous, because the algae not only can but usually does function without the protection of the anemone. The anemone simply obtains the initial algae from its surroundings- the two are not interdependent. Beneficial partnership, yes, but not necessary for one of the members. That hardly counts as an organelle.

I wasn't suggesting it was an organelle yet -- simply that it could be on the evolutionary path to becoming one. In terms of plants, chloroplasts are currently thought to be derivations of cyanobacteria -- formerly blue-green algae. Cyanobacteria are quite capable of living on their own, yet a form of them is also now an organelle in plant tissue.

Zooxanthellae and zoochlorellae are basically "hobbled' dinoflagellates (and are obligative intracellular endosymbionts) and live in the digestive tract of the anemones. In the form in which they exist among Cnidaria, they couldn't exist on their own; neither for that matter, could the anemone for long. They are interdependent, the anemone or coral for the carbohydrate products; and the algae: shelter, CO2, and fertilizer from the anemone's nitrogenous waste. Hematypic -- colonial reef-building -- corals (basically tiny anemones) are almost entirely dependent upon the symbionts and die without them. In areas where this occurs, the result is ultimately coral bleaching.

Show me anywhere where any of these symbionts are capable of living on their own . . .

 

[jimscott]

I love saltwater fish and inverts! Beautiful!

 

[BigBella]

I love saltwater fish and inverts! Beautiful!

Thanks . . .

My major was invertebrate zöology back at university; and, over the years, I have spent thousands of hours underwater, often with camera or pole-spear in hand . . .

Tealia (Urticina) Maw

Octopus II

Octopus VII

 

[Brokken]

My favorites are zooanthids and palys.

 

[xvart]

I love the photos; and, I love the discussion. Even though my knowledge base of invertebrates is relatively small I enjoy learning more.

xvart.

 

[herenorthere]

Beyond the cool photos and invert stuff, this is an interesting discussion about organelles and their origins, something I was more or less oblivious to until maybe ten years ago, when I found a mention of in a book about Precambrian geology. That led me to dig deeper and I found plenty about it and endosymbiosis in general, written by Lynn Margulis and others whose names I can't remember. The ideas go back years and range from generally accepted to radical & much disputed and I had been oblivious to all of it. I like to think I've learned a lot and it's good to come across things like that to remind me of how much I don't know.

 

[BigBella]

Thanks . . .

I am glad that you like the photos; and I had no idea where the conversation would go, after I linked that glib title to this thread. I have always been interested in odd associations -- those grey areas -- of plants and animals, everything from carnivory in the garden, parasitoidy by wasps (which served as the original inspiration for Alien) in leaf-cutter ants, to tiny male angler fish who attach to the larger females, fuse with them (giving up their own digestive tracts in the process), and tap into the female's circulatory system. Ultimately, they serve only as a source of sperm and are no longer are capable of living on their own. Then there is the parasitical barnacle, Sacculina, which attaches to a male crab at some joint (affecting upwards of 40-50% of individuals in some populations), pumps it full of feminizing hormones to alter its otherwise energy-costly aggressive behavior (forcing it, no doubt, to watch "The View" and "Oprah" with soul-killing regularity), widens its abdomen, and reduces it to a mobile egg-carrying sac. It even begins to exhibit female mating gestures. I have seen examples of this and it is repulsive to the nth degree. The huge sac -- the externa -- descends from the crab's abdominal flap, lays eggs, and mates with the male Sacculina . . .

As an odd aside, apparently the photo-hosting service, "Photo Bucket," didn't care for the "Tealia Maw" photo, and that it violated some decency rule of theirs and removed it. Apparently, I am now the Larry Flynt of invertebrate porn, since I just replaced it.

"8.1 is patently offensive or promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual;
8.4 contains nudity, excessive violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website . . ."

I am so ashamed . . .