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Move over Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil...

Make way for NAPA Floor Dry! (used to soak up oil and fluid spills in your garage)
napa8822.jpg


Most cacti people who use the Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil are now using this as it's more product for less. So since I need more Shultz APS I thought I'd buy a bag of Napa instead and try it since it's gotten good reviews from all users. It was less than $8 for 24 dry quarts, no weight on the bag but it's much lighter than an equivalent bag of kitty litter or Shultz APS.

Here's what it looks like:
napagrit.jpg


It's a bit larger fired earth pieces than the Shultz APS but still plenty small.

I will be doing a empty pot test to see how fast it dries plain VS mixed 50/50 with cherrystone grit. You really HAVE to use some kind of gravel or other heavy additive with this cos it's very light, even lighter than the Shultz APS, almost like perlite in weight when dry.

So, the inevitable question, any of you ever try this stuff?
 
interesting.....let us know how it works out
 
Haven't tried it, but I want to soon. Does it float?
~Joe
 
Cool! Where did/can you buy it?
 
Why would somebody use it anyway???.....what about the good old rich organic dirt and sand mix in clay pots? This combination used to dry the plant in less than 2 days....and why do you think cacti care so much about their soil?...they grow on almost anything.
 
Looks like he bought it at a NAPA Auto Parts store.

I haven't nailed this stuff down yet. Some resources say it is clay based, others say it is Diatomite (calcined (fired) diatomaceous earth).

If it is Diatomite it should be ok for general horticultural use. Note the mention of soluble silicas - may or may not be good for some CP species. More on Diatomite.

Diatomite for industrial use may be of different quality than horticultural grade stuff.

This may or may not be the source of your "Floor-Dry" (check the label carefully):

Chemtex

MSDS for ChemTex "Floor-Dry" (pdf format) this stuff contains silica, note the respirator and dust mask warnings.

Then there is always "Turface" which also fired Fuller's Earth that Butch found. I think you can get 40 pound bags at Ace Hardware for $10-15. That's the stuff you've probably been walking on at athletic fields, golf course etc.
 
Mark,
Maybe you guys out there in CA can have a pot of soil & sand* dry up in two days, I've gotten plants shipped in from CA potted with 50/50 pumice & supersoil but here in MN other than in June/July/August your pots may not go dry for a month or more. Not so good for succulents, I've tried and failed until I started using the Shultz which dries up super quick in my area, this is just way cheaper. Now I simply repot every plant in my mix upon arrival and they live. If I don't get them outta peat I won't have them long.

*We have no "good sand" here, just play sand which causes soil compaction. So this can double as sand for say a peat/sand mix for my sundews who need repotting.

Dart,
Just get it at any Napa auto parts store look by the cases of oil or just ask for Napa part #8822 or ask for Floor Dry.

Seed,
When I was wetting the Napa a few grains floated but they have to soak up water being bone dry so after soaking it may sink just like the APS. If the mineral the NAPA is made from is inert (someone with a aquarium test kit should run a bettery of tests on the water after this sits in it for a day, week, month, etc) cos it would be fantastic for planted aquariums considering the mix of colors in comparison to Flourite or Shultz APS. Maybe have to blend some 25% small gravel with it cos like all the other specialty aquatic soils it would seem too light to hold aquatic plants in place until they've rooted.

NAN,
Yes, the label says 100% Granular Diatomite Absorbant. Pretty much all the folks on the cacti forum who use the Shultz APS have switched to this. Back of the bag says "Kiln-fired diatomaceous earth". The only warning is about inhaling large amounts of the silica dust when it's dry. Since I mix my soils dry I either wear a tee shirt over my nose & mouth or respirator cos I don't like inhaling dust, I'd just never make it as a cokehead! :D

Here's those empty pot tests:
Napa plain I love the way it looks so natural! It really takes on some weight when it's wet too
napawet.jpg


Napa & Cherrystone Grit #2. I didn't use as much Cherrystone (the purple) as it looks but when the Napa and Cherrystone blend pots got wetted I couldn't hardly tell which was which so I added a pinch of cherrystone ontop.
napacherrystone.jpg


Compare the above with Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil baked clay, quite the same but a better "look" to the Napa. (The blurry green blob is a Lithops leslei albinica seedling)
shultzaps.jpg
 
If the mineral the NAPA is made from is inert (someone with a aquarium test kit should run a bettery of tests on the water after this sits in it for a day, week, month, etc) cos it would be fantastic for planted aquariums considering the mix of colors in comparison to Flourite or Shultz APS.
Have you checked the TDS of some water before & after a 24 hr soak? That would be a good place to start....
 
I ain't got no steenkin' TDS meter! :D

I don't have any of that kind of testing stuff anymore.
 
  • #10
I would imagine that it would increase the TDS in the water:

(From the DiatomiteUSA site in my link above, italics mine):

High Silica Content: Silica is essential for healthy plants and roots. While Diatomite is approximately 85% insoluble Silica, it contains a small but significant portion that is SOLUBLE SILICA. Silica is essential for healthy plants and roots. Your plants will receive from Diatomite a slow release of silica resulting in healthier, more robust plants. Plant available silica has been shown in studies to stimulate SYSTEMIC ACQUIRED RESISTANCE (SAR) in plants which increases their resistance to disease.
 
  • #11
I think that succulents can't be THAT picky. If succulents required soil such as that there would be none!


And the cherrystone... it... looks very similar to a material that is quarried in my area. It is pinkish/purple limestone-ish rock. Alkaline for sure if that is indeed what it is. That's similar to what you were looking for with oystershell, if I recall.
 
  • #12
Cherrystone Grit www.Cherrystonegrit.com is purple however it is inert being quarried from sandstone. It may have a small fraction of Iron but it is not calcitic as some of their suggested uses is in aquariums and to improve plant drainage , have a peek at their website. If there's another purple rock out there just be sure any you buy says this companies name on it. Just look for the big chicken! :D

Others may be able to grow in other media like potting soils and I congratulate them for it. In my area potting soils will not dry out fast enough for succulents - so I use water absorbing clays, rocks, grit, etc. If I leave a succulent plant potted in the soil it generally comes in I won't have it long. They rot off at the base. I've wasted enough money by killing them to know that I have to repot succulents upon arrival into something that drains fast and dries in 2-3 days. I'd use straight pumice but they don't sell it around here and shipping on a bag of rock is just crazy (I did it once) so a trip to Napa and $8 is right up my alley! :)

I'm not just going to use it for succulents but in place of "sand" for a peat/sand mix for my CPs too. I think it will be quite useful stuff in a number of soil mixes.
 
  • #13
for the record.....sandstone is rarely totally inert.....depends on what type of stone makes up the sand in the sandstone and under what conditions it formed........around here the sandstone is slightly alkaline cause it formed at the edge of a large, shallow ocean 65 million years ago......there aint a ton of calcium and such in it but its there......
 
  • #15
"Mark,
Maybe you guys out there in CA can have a pot of soil & sand* dry up in two days, I've gotten plants shipped in from CA potted with 50/50 pumice & supersoil but here in MN other than in June/July/August your pots may not go dry for a month or more. Not so good for succulents, I've tried and failed until I started using the Shultz which dries up super quick in my area, this is just way cheaper. Now I simply repot every plant in my mix upon arrival and they live. If I don't get them outta peat I won't have them long."

I believe the secret is in the pots. I use to have a extended succulent and cacti collection some years back in Europe in a temperate climate similar to yours i guess. Me and any growers i know there used to water them ONLY during the spring, summer and early fall months. No watering fro 4-5 months only in case of emergency and only a little. We use to call it the hibermation period. During the summer months the combination of sandy mix and the clay unglazed pots in full sun used to dry everithing in about 2-3 days. Watering was done 1 or 2 times for week depending on the size of the pots. I remember they used to look bad during the winter months and shrink a lot but inflate right back after the first 2 waterings and flower in about a month after the first watering. I don't know what method you are using to grow them but they seem to do better if thay have that rest period.
Best of luck to you and your beautiful plants!!!
 
  • #16
If he's having the same problem I've experienced with various plants, it's the lack of control over the watering schedule in summer. It'll sometimes rain several days in a row and that's awfully tough on a lot of plants and not just on cacti. Especially if it gets hot and steamy in between rains. I've always gone extra coarse with orchid potting mixes, for example, to help them survive that kind of thing.
 
  • #17
That's very true Bruce, too much rain on something like a succulent in potting soil at my place and it's "see ya!" Even normal houseplants/outdoor stuff have to have a large amount of bark added. I started using shredded cypress mulch though instead of orchid bark a few years ago. The mulch doesn't rot and it does the same thing, about 200% cheaper though! :D

Avoid that good smelling coco husks though, fungus city when mixed in a pot and I read somewhere your dogs will die if they eat it.

As far as my succulents I grow them "all" under lights, in the gravel/grit mix with sort of highland nep conditions (minus the humidity) and only water when I see signs of wrinkling, pulling into the soil, shrinking in size, etc. cos it's just too hard to control them outside. I relented and put a number of my big ones outside on my "covered" patio cos they just won't fit under the lights. Hopefully the Trichocereus and such can take the MN rains/temps, they do grow at higher altitudes, so we'll see. Now the smaller stuff is really coloring up nice with the lamps 2-3" away from the plant tops and a cooling fan running 24/7 to get a nice drop in night temps into the 60*F range and not too hot during the day (75-90*F).

Mark, I indeed learned much of my succulent growing skills from an Englishman! He taught me the "zen of watching for wrinkles" He doesn't call it that but that's what it really is. Growing hard and dry. He doesn't believe grow lights can give good enough light to grow plants "unless they're cannabis lights" he always says but that's just bias against florescents and a defense of his greenhouse & halides as far as I'm concerned. I've used halides for my Neps/orchids and while they can somewhat more closely simulate the intensity and drying action of the sun they have a whole host of other logistical concerns to contend with. But the "English method" as I call it (cos of him) seems to work in my conditions - whereas I only killed them before. I've never owned a succulent longer than a month until doing them this way.
 
  • #18
I'm just now seeing this thread.

Has anyone been able to run any tests on the NAPA Floor Dry stuff yet? I can no longer get Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil locally. Shipping on the stuff is outrageous. I use it to grow my Pinguicula. Before I discovered this stuff, I was about to believe I couldn't grow Pings and give up. The "normal" CP mixes do NOT work for me in my conditions.

I did some reading and found that "all natural" kitty litter can be used in the place of APS. The problem is, the kitty litter dissolves, and rather quickly so it won't work for what I need it for. I did a test with a small handful in a cup. Within an hour or two, it was a mucky mess. Why anyone would want to use it in their aquarium is beyond me.

Will the NAPA Floor Dry dissolve when exposed to water? If not, I'd be willing to try it out on a few Pings that I have extra of. If this won't work due to the silica breaking down (or it nearly completely dissolving like the kitty litter) then I'll have to experiment with pure vermiculite. I've read that both pure vermiculite and an approximate mix of 50/50 vermiculite and perlite (I'm having issues getting perlite too, all the local stuff has MircleGro, except for one place that has it on back order) work with great results. It looks like I'm getting ready to find out...

My post is a bit off topic since it isn't regarding succulents and cactus, sorry about that. I would really like to know if it dissolves though.

Crystal
 
  • #19
Crystal -- you should try 1:1 sand/pumice. Apparently totally inorganic soils like that do well, at least in my experience.

Cindy in Singapore uses pure perlite; I've tried this and it works very well! If you get the water level right the plants grow faster than usual.
 
  • #20
Thanks Jeff. Even the sand that I have here is iffy. It's sand from the local area, which would come from the limestone probably. I use the play sand in my bogs and such with no problems, but would be afraid to use that much with nothing else mixed to help balance it. Can't find pumice either, so that doesn't help much :(.

I'm hoping to be able to get some perlite without ferts within the next few weeks. The place I got the vermiculite from has the perlite on back order. So I have no idea how long it will be. I refuse the buy the small 8 quart bag for over $5.00 when I can get a 4 cubic feet bag for $17.00. That should supply all my perlite needs for a very very long time....if only they can get it in.

For now, I'm going to give the vermiculite a go. I'll make a thread later on about the results if anyone is interested.

Though I'm still curious about the NAPA stuff.

Crystal
 
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