User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 33 to 40 of 55

Thread: Racist Fireworks Found Being Sold in Wis.

  1. #33
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    Posts
    4,064
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But you do see riots and violence over all sorts of Christian agendas. They just don't get as much press, as Western sects causing trouble around here is nothing new. And, as long as you're bringing up the example of the Mohammed comic, didn't that riot happen after the paper that published it declined cooperate with the requests of the imams of the region? So, it's not like the Muslims that rioted just read the paper, stood up and said, "Someone's gonna pay!" They were worked up about it because it became a point of formal protest and the concerns of their entire community (at least from the rioter's perspective.) Also consider that Muslims as a whole have had a big bull's-eye painted on them for more or less the past decade (or two) - that has to wear on you after a while. (Being slightly on the conservative side, haven't you grown sore of the constant Repub-bashing that's been so popular in the same span of time?)
    I believe the same kind of thing has a way of happening here in the States when folks like Fred Phelps get up on their soapbox around here. The only difference is, everyone understands the nuances of neo-Christian politics around here can see that the small fraction of Christians who back up people like Phelps are the minority, are acting out of earnest (arguably misguided) concern, and are not representative of Christian attitudes or agendas at large. Want a non-secular example? PETA, gay rights, public schools, free trade, emissions controls, logging protesters... the list goes on. When people are unhappy and then taunted and ignored long enough, they revert to their basal instincts, and get violent. That's an attribute of people; not Muslims, not facists, not treehuggers.
    I think the reason you don't see Muslims policing their own is because they don't have the means. Most Muslim nations are theocracies where the bulk of the populace takes relatively strict orders about their conduct, particularly about their political actions. I'm not trying to be standoffish, but I think you're outright wrong that the Muslims community didn't try to curb those riots; I remember hearing a lot of Muslim protest on the TV news and in the papers condemning the riots. It didn't receive much press until the imams also called for an end to the violence, but well before then I remember seeing quite a bit of "man on the street" interviews with local Muslims that were pretty much all of the bent that it was an inappropriate response, with varying shades of "but the paper started it."
    I believe the important part is that Islam has a different structure and social dynamic than Christianity. As far as I understand, the Muslim clergy is much more uniform and closely tied than the governing bodies of the myriad Christian sects. Unless I'm mistaken, Islam is closer to single sect, like the Catholics, than it is to being an umbrella term like Christianity. That is, all formal Muslim practice falls under the authority of one group of clergymen, unlike Christian offshoots which mostly just share their scriptures and little else. As such, Islam comes off a bit more like an oligarchy - it isn't as adaptive or progressive as Christianity because there's a consolidation of authority among a few fairly permanent leaders. Many Christian churches are small and accept little dictation from whatever governing bodies they belong to; as such, the whole of Christianity is quite adaptive in it's stances on societal issues, since if one church is saying things that the congregation doesn't like, anyone can just walk down the street to a different church. That kind of option isn't really available in many Muslim nations, especially in third world and immigrant communities, as well as the first-world Muslim nations that are controlled by the church.
    I think that if you were to look at some of the more cloistered Christian communities, you would find analogous instances of intolerance and violence. It's all a matter of scale.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  2. #34
    rattler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    missing, presumed dead
    Posts
    8,554
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Muslims have as many sects as christians.......Muslims tend to be more intollerant than christians because most arabic societies are based on tribal culture......and tribes tend to be very closed minded, my way or the highway types.....aint saying its wrong, but thats the way it is........and in alreality it has no real place if you think everyone should do their best to get along cause the mentality that you need to get along with your neighbor instead of wiping them out for the most part does not exist in tribal societies.....

    as for muslims having a target on their back, that is of their own doing as a whole......look at the history of Iraq....yah got three groups, the Shittes, the Sunnis and the Kurds.....all have been trying to wipe the others out since they came into existence.....the Saudi's dont like their neighbors, the Turks dont like theirs, the Iranians dont like theirs and they all hate the group currently called palistinians....

    I think that if you were to look at some of the more cloistered Christian communities, you would find analogous instances of intolerance and violence.
    actually not really.......im in a small town(2,500) that has over a dozen churches as well as Mennonite and Hutterite colonies north and south of here....Mormon, Lutheran, Babtist and Catholic churchs are all big here...Jehovahs Witnesses make their home here aswell.....yet everyone gets along fine.....in fact as a rule in the modern first world Christians tend to get along just fine....dont mean they dont give each other crap....my wife is a Lutheran and loves giving the Catholics verbal jabs but no one takes it seriously.....

    as far as the Arabics, there has been a big push for places like Canada and France to allow for Sharia law and to respect it.....these groups have no interest in assimilating into the western world....they want to keep their tribal beliefs.....which is fine by me, but stay in Islamic countries than...there is no place for it in the US where everyone should be treated as equals....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  3. #35

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    Muslims have as many sects as christians.......Muslims tend to be more intollerant than christians because most arabic societies are based on tribal culture......and tribes tend to be very closed minded, my way or the highway types.....aint saying its wrong, but thats the way it is........and in alreality it has no real place if you think everyone should do their best to get along cause the mentality that you need to get along with your neighbor instead of wiping them out for the most part does not exist in tribal societies.....

    as for muslims having a target on their back, that is of their own doing as a whole......look at the history of Iraq....yah got three groups, the Shittes, the Sunnis and the Kurds.....all have been trying to wipe the others out since they came into existence.....the Saudi's dont like their neighbors, the Turks dont like theirs, the Iranians dont like theirs and they all hate the group currently called palistinians....
    OK, this is really not acurrate at all. Islam has many sects but they are primarily on the conservative side of the spectrum. More liberal sects do exsist though they have few followers. The conservativeness of Islam goes all the way back to the early days of the first Caliphs who outlawed the more liberal sects which allowed each individual to interpret the Qu'ran as they saw fit, though during this time almost all Muslims were ruled by one man in one empire. The influnce of Arabic tribal society is quasi indoctrinated in the Hadith, the oral traditions of Islam.

    The Problems in Iraq stem from the Mandate period where the Western Nations which controlled the former Ottoman empire intentionally broke up the area to incorporate groups that were different so the colonial gov't could pit them against each other, which they did. The Saudis are ruled by an unpopular family in their own country that maintains control through the sale of massive quantities of US weapons, something that all Americans are responsible for. Iranians are ruled by a religious council the US supported and helped to put in power over the democratically elected anti-west government, again our fault. As for those groups not liking Palestinians, what world have you been living under. Where do you think Palestinians get their money and weapons from. Iran is one of the biggest finical supporters of Hezbollah.

    As for Muslims not policing themselves are you familiar with what went on in Jordan during the 1970's when King Hussein eliminated the radicals in his country and out lawwed groups like Hamas and Hezbollah?

    As a final note, any Christian Church that supports the actions of Israel is just as guilty of supporting violence and murder as any Muslim sect. Until these churches push for the arrest and trial of Israeli war criminals and cut off funding to Israel they are being just a violent, they are just using other people to do their killing that is all. This goes for all western nations which give funds and arms to the Israelis. I am not trying to start a whole new debate here, only trying to point out that Christianity is still guilty of much violence and bloodshed, just not on our own land.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #36
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    Posts
    4,064
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    Muslims have as many sects as christians...
    That's correct - they are comparable in that sense. And each of those sects have political and territorial agendas that often put them at opposition to one another. But do they have divisions in their theology? My understanding of Islam is fairly basic, but I was under the impression that there was one central religious authority among Muslim congregations. If I'm correct, that's a significant difference sociologically, because especially in the many third world and emerging Muslim nations, the church has a great deal of control over education and media. If the church has a central authority governing it, that grants a level of control over the common beliefs of their followers that is almost incomparable to that found in Western religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    actually not really.......im in a small town(2,500) that has over a dozen churches as well as Mennonite and Hutterite colonies north and south of here....Mormon, Lutheran, Babtist and Catholic churchs are all big here...Jehovahs Witnesses make their home here aswell.....yet everyone gets along fine.....in fact as a rule in the modern first world Christians tend to get along just fine....dont mean they dont give each other crap....my wife is a Lutheran and loves giving the Catholics verbal jabs but no one takes it seriously.....
    See, I wouldn't call that cloistered at all. There are a selection of faiths all with different ideas, all with a very contemporary attitude of tolerance common to them - you even have two of the Christian sects that have their own unique religious texts. I'm thinking more along the lines of Waco, or Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force. These things end up being a lot more bizarre and often sinister than tribal infighting and zealotry over one's primary religious icon.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  5. #37
    rattler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    missing, presumed dead
    Posts
    8,554
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Waco, or Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force
    those fall under cults, not religious sects.......

    As for Muslims not policing themselves are you familiar with what went on in Jordan during the 1970's
    one small country, wow.........

    As for those groups not liking Palestinians, what world have you been living under. Where do you think Palestinians get their money and weapons from. Iran is one of the biggest finical supporters of Hezbollah.
    yet the Iranians will not give the Palestinians a place within Iran, neither will any other Arabic nation....the Palestinians are the white trash of the Arabic world, no one wants them........and these nations are more than happy to give them weapons for fighting Israel because of the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

    The Problems in Iraq stem from the Mandate period where the Western Nations which controlled the former Ottoman empire intentionally broke up the area to incorporate groups that were different so the colonial gov't could pit them against each other, which they did.
    this would be the english and the french, not us.....

    As a final note, any Christian Church that supports the actions of Israel is just as guilty of supporting violence and murder as any Muslim sect. Until these churches push for the arrest and trial of Israeli war criminals and cut off funding to Israel they are being just a violent, they are just using other people to do their killing that is all. This goes for all western nations which give funds and arms to the Israelis.
    BS.....read your history, the Israelis LEGALLY PURCHASED most of the land currently called Isreal after WWII, they paid a hell of alot of money for the land too, far more than it was worth had it been sold any other way....however the Arabic countries refused to recognize it....those that did ntot want to sell were allowed to stay on their own land and most that chose to stay were actually treated alot better under the Israelis than they had under the arabic rulers.....



    who really are the intolerant ones?
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  6. #38
    Agent of Chaos Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Can we please close this thread? It's getting insulting in here.
    "I may be on the side of angels, but do not mistake me for one."

    Wolfn's Growlist

  7. #39
    JRFxtreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    536
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I thought the discussion has been really tame so far. Conflicting views can't be resolved by not talking about them.

  8. #40
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona USA
    Posts
    8,432
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I've only skimmed this topic, but it seems to be a good discussion thus far. Lets just make sure we're staying away from any type of insults and such of course
    If I've missed something that should be corrected (or that may pop up later) everyone please remember you're welcome to point it out to a mod/admin by using the "report" button witch is under the post count of each person... Just use the button in the reply you want to report and let us know why you think it needed to be reported....

    Carry on.
    Andrew
    -Andrew
    Owner of TerraForums, FlyTrapShop.com, and cpforums.org.
    Support FlyTrapShop, support TerraForums! www.flytrapshop.com

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Random Pics, Bad Storm Front, Fireworks and Nature..
    By *Barracuda_45* in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-08-2008, 12:52 PM
  2. Top 20 Weirdest Things Ever Sold on eBay
    By NeciFiX in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-06-2007, 01:07 PM
  3. Sold the house
    By Kirkscoastalcarnivores in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-22-2004, 08:10 PM
  4. Bromeliads sold in pft
    By Daniel in forum Bromeliads, Tillandsia, Ferns
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-28-2003, 05:03 PM
  5. Question about  sundews sold here
    By LOs Angels Traphole in forum Sundews (Drosera), Byblis, Drosophyllum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-13-2003, 06:08 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •