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Thread: No public health care = no change

  1. #33
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    where in the hell do the CIA get their numbers? do they have ppl in every hospital counting the births?
    Yes. They have eyes and ears everywhere! Or so I've been led to believe... lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    a major cost of our health care as a nation that is not a major issue with any nation that has any sort of government sponsored health care is the HUGE number if illegal immigrants in our country and the drain they are on the system....i really think this issue needs to be addressed long before we start offering tax payer sponsered health care for the masses of legal citizens.....
    This is interesting and I hadn't thought about this. Thanks for bringing this up, rattler. Do you have any additional reading on this facet?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  2. #34
    rattler's Avatar
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    well the fact of the matter is it is illegal for any public ER to turn away someone who is in need of medical care.....no matter what anyone trys to tell you its a fact.....not saying that some hospitals arent over worked and understaffed and it wont take you 14 hours plus of sitting in a major ER's waiting room for a busted finger or other non-emergent issue.....but if yah come in complaining of chest pains they kick yah to the front of the line....many ER facilities in border states are shutting down due to the fact a significant portion of their er clientele is illegal immigrants who dont pay and cant be made to pay for their services....

    ill find the numbers for yah in a bit, going to take some back tracking to find where i last ran across the hard figures....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  3. #35
    dashman's Avatar
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    Soley on the backs of me and my fellow Americans. We have not backed our currency with gold and silver since 1933... I think so don't quote me on that. Countries can request payment in gold if desired. I do believe some countries have with the US in the past, but again don't quote me on that. We wouldn't have enough gold to cover even a fraction of our debt.
    (edit: Just did research and we actually backed it up until the Nixon administration to our foreign debtors until France made a run on our gold and nearly depleted us.)

    Only a fraction of our economy is made of paper and coin it is mostly binary 1's and 0's with magnetic tape backups of course.

    Just came across a relative link:
    http://www.fordham.edu/Campus_Resour...chive_1377.asp


    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    given the US Government has been spending more money than they take in for YEARS....just where do you think this money comes from if they arent printing it without backing of precious metals? they just havent done it to a point yet where its caused major inflation.....mainly cause the majority of it so far has just been money on paper and not actual bills changing hands.....if everyone called in their debts there would not be enough cash in the system to do it......

  4. #36
    rattler's Avatar
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    FDR took us off the gold standard in the 1930's(maybe 1920's?).....there hasnt been ANY precious metals linked to any of our currency since they quit making our standard coinage(quarters and dimes, ect) with silver in them in the 1960's, ive got a bunch of 1950's dimes worth more than face value at the moment just due to the amount of silver in them......our current dollar is absolutely NOT currently backed by precious metals and hasnt been for decades.......

    and your right by way of our economy our currency value is directly linked to the backs of the 9-5 working stiffs.....and congress can and does have a part in royally screwing this up......we havent felt how bad its going to get yet....the whole country at this point is running on those 1's and 0's and and credit and its all a house of cards starting to topple.....

    xvart...heres a link to an older story(bout 18 months old) but am still looking for hard numbers, or relitivly hard numbers from studies.... http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...althcare_N.htm
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #37
    quogue's Avatar
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    Where'd we get the money?
    We borrowed it from the Chinese... and when inflation hits, cause it will, they will be quite upset.

    As for Health Care, I know the Massachusetts and California Health initiatives and NY's Medicaid are all a mess. So let's ram through something similar without so much as a plan before the Summer recess?

    Why the rush? So Ted Kennedy can have one last vote in the Senate. Notice Obama's going to "Kennedy Land" for vacation... maybe he can lay a wreath at a certain pond in Chappaquiddick.

    I agree with reform... the system's an expensive mess and a drain on the economy. A safety net for people that deserve it would be a good thing as well.
    But when people start declaring Goverment Heathcare a "right" they are just wrong.
    It's not in the Constitution fellas.

    Maybe a Gov't responsibility at best, even then that's pushing it.
    It would be a good thing though as long as it's done right, if done wrong it will ruin this Country.

    There are people who exploit the systems in place through various means. I think we need to clean house before we expand on it.
    I know that's what they are talking about, but they simply aren't doing it.

    Fix it first, then we can talk...

    Just my $.02

  6. #38
    rattler's Avatar
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    as i said it took Obama 6 months to pick out the perfect dog for his family......and ppl want him and congress to throw together a brand new health care system together in a matter of weeks? i would be a lil more comfortable if they spent a couple years hammering things out......course by then there will be so much pork added it would prolly do us more harm than good.....and i flat out refuse to agree to any system they come up with that congress themselves refuse to be a part of it....if it aint good enough for them it aint good enough for the citizen busting there **** 60 hours a week trying to keep food on the table who truly needs the help....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  7. #39
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    I work in healthcare and it is a mess. The problem is as some pointed out is that the gov't taking it over will be a bigger mess. One thing I have noticed is that it is only media and sheeple baaaing what the media says that says canadians come here en masse for healthcare or that they wait days in ER. I have seen polls in healthcare magazines taken from legitimate polling agancies that 95% of Canadians prefer their system to ours. The statistics for their ER are actually better than ours because people get better overall preventative care than here. The ER's here are over-run with patients who are not emergent and shoudl go to their doctor but can't due to waits at their doctor or no money. So what this boils down to is first,

    I would love to see an emphasis on health teaching, nutrition and preventative medicine.

    Gov't funded well health / non-emergent clinics that charge per ability to pay.

    Regulation of healthcare companies to ensure they stop screwing people over and overcharging.

    An SR-22 program for people who have healthcare issues and can't get healthcare coverage.

    Govt buying program for medicines and medical supples. Why do people go to cancada to get meds? This is why. Bush's medicine plan screwed people out of billions by making them pay retail for meds. The gov't could have easily negotiated much lower rates.

    Gov't programs to help hospitals purchase expensive euiptment. This is why it is $1,200 for a CT. Those machines are in the millions of $'s and need specialized employees to use them. They also use a massive amount of electricity. Being overcharged by hospitals is the least of my worries.

    S-chip for all kids. (children's health insurance program). Let me preface the next sentence by saying that I am very libertarian and hate both parties vehemently. the republicans pissed me off when they refused to properly fund this program. because they said parents would drop their insurance if their kids could get treated. That makes no sense, they were bought off.

    Now some of this is expensive, but pennies to the gov't bailout program. It aslo does not allow gov't to dictate healthcare policy or run it and it limits their involvement on the privacy issues. Little to no increased bureaucracy.

    Some sort of limits of medical law suits , but this is tricky. They need to crack down on frivilous sue and settle cases and the massive class actions suits where each defendant gets a few bucks and the lawyers are set for life.

    Refurb money for rural hospitals. I have heard America has the best healthcare. That is not true we rank somewhere in the 40's world wide. We have some of the best doctors and facilities but who has access to these. The very rich and very poor and of course politicians.

    I am done with my rant. Sorry for the length. ( I f I had a nickel for every time... )

    ---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

    Healthcare is not a right, but is it the moral thing to do. It's ironic in a country that many call a Christian nation we would think healthcare is only for those who can pay. There are alot of things that are not rights but that are duties. Whether we know it or not we have a responsibilty to the social contract. when we bring up others in society we all benefit. Healthy people are more productive and and less of a drain on future healthcare costs.

  8. #40
    rattler's Avatar
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    most Canadians do say they prefer their system..........but the average wait for a non emergent MRI is 6 to 8 months.....most Canadians that i know that had knees replaced(and i mean that i personally know, not instances that i heard about) flew over seas to have it done and did it out of pocket cause the wait is so long in Canada, by the time they woulda had it done they would have been confined to a wheel chair for awhile before they would have the surgery.......i blows my Canadian friends minds that the day i screw up my knee i can have an MRI done and be out of surgery to fix torn cartilage or an ACL that let loose in under a month.....that type of time line for non emergent care is unheard of in Canada.....most of them have to wait months for the MRI let alone how long its gonna take for surgery.....especially if they can still walk on it....

    and being i live all of 60 miles from the border.....alot of border hospitals in the US do see alot of Canadian patients cause they can get seen much sooner for non emergent issues.....and they pay for it out of pocket.....one of the hospitals north of me, though they are in a town with a much smaller population, they are doing booming business due to the Canucks....

    also the Canadian system is currently imploding......those in charge of the systems are screaming that its not doing well......also the Canadian system relies heavily on the US medical system, more specifically our R&D.....their system doesnt support much R&D work because the profit isnt there....so new techniques and equipment is developed and put through its paces in the US where there is profit in it and than Canadian hospitals purchase this technology after it hits the mass market....very little of this happens the other way around, where we get new medical technologies from Canada......also because the health care is "free" everyone uses it for every lil thing....runny nose? run to the er.....lil warm? run to the ER....after all it doesnt cost "me" anything.......it clogs the hospitals and those that are really sick have to sit and wait......and its not "free" most average working stiffs in Saskatchewan, those in my pay scale range, have 50% of their paychecks taken by the provincial and country government, a large portion of which goes toward their health care......ive seen their pay stubs......

    yes most Canucks prefer their system, until it bites them in the **** personally....then they are usually very happy to hop the border and use ours....and unless it has bit them and they have sought treatment in another country they are happy with it because they have known no other......

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...335rGu_Z3KXoQw
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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