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Thread: No public health care = no change

  1. #49
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    For those that are interested, Obama is speaking on healthcare right now: http://www.barackobama.com/forum/live.html

    Jason

  2. #50
    BigBella's Avatar
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    When members of Congress are subjected to that very same public program that they are so driven to pass this Fall, but seem unable or unwilling to read its 1200 pages in its entirety, I'll be ready climb on board. They jealously guard their own privately-run insurance coverage and I am sure that Ted Kennedy -- were it not for his personal wealth and private medical insurance -- would otherwise be among JFK and RFK by now. Heads of state of other countries, when faced with serious medical crises -- most recently Italy's Berlusconi in 2006 and, earlier, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh -- routinely fly to the US for treatment, typically to the Cleveland Clinic or Johns Hopkins. Why is that when they must surely have a worker's paradise with a "public option" medical system ready to take care of them in their respective countries?

    I have lived overseas on a few occasions in the last twenty years and the advice I've always received from those under socialized programs is, "Whatever the hell you do, don't ever get sick . . ."
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  3. #51

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    I have health care insurance and access to pretty good health care at an affordable price. However, there are nearly 50 million Americans without health care insurance. Many of them defer going to a doctor because of the cost when they initially get sick, at a time those with insurance would see a doctor. It’s a sad commentary on a rich country that so many people don’t get health care when they need it. It’s only when their condition deteriorates that they feel they must get health care. By then they may be so ill that they require expensive treatment. They go to an emergency room, where the hospital is required by federal law to treat them and bring them to at least a stable condition. If they don’t have enough money, they can’t pay. But the hospital has to somehow cover the costs of care (the salaries of physicians, nurses, aides, the cost of medical supplies, the cost of tests, etc.). That’s why private insurance premiums are higher by about $1700 per year than they would otherwise be. Those uncompensated costs have to be covered somehow.

    Even people with health care insurance shouldn’t feel secure. Some health care insurance plans have very high deductibles. Most plans have a cap on how much the insurance company will pay out in total. If an individual gets a terrible disease, gets a lot of treatment, and exceeds the cap, that person is on his/her own from then on. No more help from the insurance company. In addition, insurance companies have been known to cancel the insurance of people who contract a disease because the insurance companies know they are going to have to pay out at lot of money to treat those people. Young, healthy people tend not to get insurance, and so the insurance companies screen out the people who are going to use a lot of health care so that they can make a profit.

    Unfortunately, health care in the U.S. is largely dependent on private health care insurance companies making big profits. In this case the “invisible hand” of capitalism works to distribute resources, but not in a humane manner. The “invisible hand” is at the throats of the uninsured, and the invisible hand is choking them.

    The World Health Organization recently ranked the U.S. health care system #37 in the world, and that is behind countries like Colombia and Morocco. In the U.S., a whopping 17% of the GDP goes to health care, and 15% of the population isn’t even covered by health care insurance. In countries with universal health care, only 10% of the GDP typically goes to health care. Clearly, U.S. citizens are paying too much for too little. The health care system needs reform.

  4. #52
    rattler's Avatar
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    dont much care what the WHO says.....i would rather be in any backroads one doc dink of a hospital in Montana over any hospital in Morocco even without insurance.........

    and our nation isnt a rich nation compared to the others....our debt load due to DC is damn near unimaginable....and if the Chinese, who own alot of that debt, ever decide to collect we are screwed......if DC aint under control it makes no seance to put them in control of your health care......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  5. #53
    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tropics View Post
    The World Health Organization recently ranked the U.S. health care system #37 in the world, and that is behind countries like Colombia and Morocco. In the U.S., a whopping 17% of the GDP goes to health care, and 15% of the population isn’t even covered by health care insurance. In countries with universal health care, only 10% of the GDP typically goes to health care. Clearly, U.S. citizens are paying too much for too little. The health care system needs reform.
    That dubious WHO ranking and affect on the GDP never takes into consideration the great cost in innovation -- the billions that go into developing cutting-edge diagnostic equipment, pharmaceuticals, and procedures; and, as a scientist myself, those numbers simply represent one statistical model among many (you can pull numbers out of the ether if you so desire) -- and as removed from reality as a china doll is from an actual child.

    Once again, if the US truly ranks thirty-seventh in the world in terms of our health care system, it still remains a mystery why so many foreign leaders still arrive at our shores for any serious medical treatment, and why a good friend of mine from Quebec traveled -- on his own dime -- to New York to get his knee replaced in 2007, and his mother to receive a timely MRI . . .

    I suppose waiting two years to get off of crutches and eight months in Montreal to determine whether she indeed had stage-three cancer was beyond the pale. How terribly selfish of them.

    Why Morocco or Algeria was never considered for diagnostic treatment, though, remains a mystery. They just had to slum it in the US . . .

    "Rock the Casbah,
    Rock the Casbah . . ."
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  6. #54
    mark.ca's Avatar
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    ....maybe US was closer
    But seriously now....you don't have to look at any statistics in order to tell that the US healthcare system sucks! All you have to do is go to ER!!! 800$ for an x-ray!!!! WOW! Then you may try this in different contries around the world and compare the results. People come for treatment here because the docs are good (the best?....how can you tell?) and better equiped not because the system is good. BTW the system is perfect only for the rich.
    The European healthcare system is not perfect but is way better than this crap that we have here....you don't have to believe me...just go and see it for yourself! (BTW i spent most of my years there)
    Here your life can end even if the docs save you....after you recieve your bill!....or you can make car payments to an med insurance company that can dump you if you get really sick!
    I LOVE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS!....and you, the supporters of this crap!
    Best regards,
    Marius

    My Website: http://droseragemmae.com/

  7. #55
    BigBella's Avatar
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    I am self-employed and pay for my own insurance; and I've never payed 800.00 for an x-ray in my life, though close to that for an MRI. But that's the cost of being wheeled into a two million dollar machine; it was either that or cast entrails, tea leaves, or runes to see what was wrong. I went with the GE route.

    I also agree that the cost of insurance is high (and I am not defending that), much like my car insurance, to pay for those uninsured, illegal aliens, and for the rising cost of everything. I eventually pass this cost on to my clients (much like the recent restaurant tax in San Francisco which contributes to employee health care). Adding the moribund bloat of the US government to the mix will be a colossal nightmare; just consider the condition of VA hospitals and bankrupt Medicare and Medicaid. They cannot even manage these comparatively minor institutions, much less accommodate the medical care of the American population at large. Fix those services first and let the government impress me with its acumen.

    When those who in Congress, who continue to enjoy private insurance services, but who seem unwilling or unable to read or process the 1100 page health bill they are in such a fever to pass this year, sign up for that same "public option," I am far more likely to climb on-board. But I am also wisely investing in Lotto this weekend.

    I have never had faith whatsoever in the US or any other government, regardless of who is in office, and recoil whenever I hear, "I am from your government and I am here to help you . . ."
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  8. #56
    rattler's Avatar
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    $800 for an x-ray huh? i just got a series of 8 xrays of my back a few weeks back on one of the newer digital x-ray machines......the entire series might be around $800 but im not sure of that.....do know a shot of my knee a couple years ago before they went digital cost $65.....ive paid around $1000 to have a look at my knee but it required i spend 30 minutes in an MRI.........$800 for an xray? can i have some of what your smoking?
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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