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No public health care = no change

http://www.myembarq.com/news/read.php?id=17231404&ps=1011&cat=&cps=0&lang=en

Well because of lies and BS we middle class workers still won't be able to go to doctor after all as the dems have now pulled the public health care option out of the health care reform bill. You'll still be able to get care if you're homeless or rich. But if you make 10-35K a year you're still screwed, just like now. They say "health co-operatives" now and the gop are ok with that and so the fight is essentially over. Take a look online at what's available for health care coops. Six clinics in one state (WI)... So just like now, I'll still be able to pay a premium and still not be able to go to a doctor or dentist. But at least someone will still be able to collect $40 - $80 a month from and still let us die, should we eventually get real sick, you know the drill: "bye!"

We can thank the money grubbing jesus freak politicians and their "loving compassion" for doing away with any chance of the lower middle class getting health care. I just don't know what I'd do if I didn't have my rotten abscessed teeth and bad back. "Dear god Obama wants to drill my cavities!" :D
 
has anybody seen coverage of the 450,00 that showed up for the free health clinic held in LA last week? They literaly were oveflowed with humans needing medical attention ranging from cavities to terminal cancer.

The GOP totaly ****ed over America with this one. People are in dire need of just a little medical attention, and they feel the the need to deny millions help in order to have a "victory" over Obama. Congrats guys, hope it was worth it. :mad:
 
oh come on! Honestly!
 
Not meaning to incite a riot but just wanted to point out that unless we rewrite the constitution it is not the job of the state (federal government) to provide healtcare.

Also, if you want real reform, you should have caps on what hospitals can charge for a procedure. There is a lot of fleecing in the healtcare business along with bureaucracy. That is what makes it so expensive. I recently paid 1200 dollars for an ultrasound. Are you kidding me!?! My HS and college sports trainer facilitated them regularly. The machines are not all that expensive and does not require a doctor to administer them.

Prices should be capped because healthcare is a unique business. You want to live so you will do whatever a doctor says in order to do that. They have you by the ... well let's just say they got you in a unique position that allows them to currently charge whatever they want. If you notice cost is never mentioned in any procedure. You, as a responsible consumer can and should ask what something costs and ask if it is really necessary. You would never buy a car and not know the price. Why would you do the same for a doctors visit?

It turns out my ultrasound that I paid 1200 dollars for wasn't necessary. My regular doctor was out the day I made the appt and the younger physican is the one who ordered it. Not knowing I had high deductible. My regular physician told me in my follow up visit that more or less it really wasn't necessary. I was a little disgruntled for the 1200 dollar bill in the first place since I have high deductable, this caused me to switch physicians and always ask what something will cost and is it really needed in the future.

You as a consumer have the right to ask what something will cost you and if it is needed. My belief is that doctors and hospitals are given too much slack when it comes to ordering tests, and such and how much they charge.

Swords,

You will never see the middle class widely included in any social program. They are by definition, the median of our society and thus the majority. If you implement a program giving capital away to the majority of your citizens, you come up with a losing situation. That is unless you want to trade quality for quantity. No matter who promises it, it will never happen. And if it ever does, it will ultimately be a large pyramid scheme as it takes money to move money around and give it back to the ones who gave it in the first place. Simple mathematics.
 
"The GOP totaly ****ed over America with this one. People are in dire need of just a little medical attention, and they feel the the need to deny millions help in order to have a "victory" over Obama. Congrats guys, hope it was worth it."

I can see what you are getting at Frankie, but have you seen how "universal" healthcare works in most other countries? It is not very effective. Also, do you know why doctors get paid so much in the US? It is because they are the BEST IN THE WORLD. Top students from around the world (especially India) train to become doctors, and when it is realized that they are much brighter than their peers, they come to america to practice medicine. Not only that, but in countries where they have a government healthcare program it can take MONTHS to see the doctors. Many of them aren't even good doctors by our standards. I spoke to a man a couple months back when I was a work, he and his mother were from canada. She needed to see a doctor because her head was bothering her, four months later she managed to get in. Although by that time it was much worse than a headache, it was brain cancer, and it was no longer curable. One final note on this topic, and it basically sums up my point. If we did have a government sponsored health program, all the good doctors would privatize their practices, the end result being that you would have to wait months, just to see a sub-par doctor. Sounds pretty bad to me.
 
Having experienced Universal healthcare personally, it's been effective enough to provide me with all of the surgeries I have ever needed, and all and any of the doctor visitations anyone I have ever known under such a program has ever needed... Waiting 24hrs in the ER is complete BS. I never waited any longer in the a US waiting room then in a a European waiting room.... My doctor may not have been the 'Best in the world' but he was able to do everything and anything surgically that needed to be done and I have not had to go back for any problems 13 yrs down the road...
Health care is a right, not a privilege.
 
I recently paid 1200 dollars for an ultrasound. Are you kidding me!?!

I know what you mean. A few months ago I slipped and hit my head and had to go to the ER. The cost of a MRI + xrays came out to over $7k. Luckily I only had to pay $200 as my health insurance covered the rest. The only problem is in a few months I'm going to have to drop my insurance since they want to increase my cost by $600 more a month to cover me.

I guess the moral of the story is; next time I'll just have to sleep it off.
 
I agree... I am saddened by the epic failure of Dems to do what needs to get done (not just health insurance reform, but other areas where they fail to be progressive enough for me)... almost makes me want my vote for Obama back... but that is neither here nor there.

On the forums here, let's do what most of our fellow Americans have failed to do at the Town Halls and have a CIVIL and INTELLIGENT debate on this. Political discussions here can be iffy, and shouting matches won't fly and won't end well... So let's keep it civil.

Cole
 
I know what you mean. A few months ago I slipped and hit my head and had to go to the ER. The cost of a MRI + xrays came out to over $7k. Luckily I only had to pay $200 as my health insurance covered the rest. The only problem is in a few months I'm going to have to drop my insurance since they want to increase my cost by $600 more a month to cover me.

I guess the moral of the story is; next time I'll just have to sleep it off.

My point exactly. Going to socialized healthcare doesn't fix the problem. You only paid $200 but the hospital got thier 7K from your insurance. Under socialized healthcare it would be the same game.

Businesses are going to high deductible and are starting to force it upon thier employees because healthcare is getting out of hand. They can no longer afford to cover you because of the rampant fleecing going on by the healthcare profession. The problem is what doctors and hospitals charge. And they are taking a hardline. My mother works in billing for an un-nameed medical supplier. They charge in 6 months for equipment for what it would take to buy it and then some. When the Medicare runs out they remove it although they have already made a profit and start the cycle again.

Why are we looking for the government to cover this cost? Why are we not asking the goverment to prevent the greedy from taking advantage of those in need.
 
  • #10
I came mighty close to going bankrupt two years ago due to a health condition my wife developed that required multiple and extensive surgeries. And we had 'decent' insurance also. Something has to change, the way things are now is an embarassment.
 
  • #11
Public health isn't just a question of who pays everyone's medical bills. For instance, federal policies drive the overproduction of fats, sugars and other empty calories, which makes junk food abundant and cheap in comparison with healthy food and encourages bad diets. That has to change, especially when we factor in the environmental consequences. Diet is a big part of the reason for Americans' relatively poor health outcomes despite an unbelievably costly medical system. But there's more, such as development patterns, which have an impact on public health and are skewed in an unhealthy direction by government policies and/or funding.

Americans with good medical insurance have access to great medical care, but the number of them having it is in decline and change is inevitable. And, since so much is spent in hopeless and invasive procedures to prolong life, but not quality of life, it's also inevitable that people eventually won't be able to demand every procedure they or their relatives might want to try at the end of their life.
 
  • #12
I came mighty close to going bankrupt two years ago due to a health condition my wife developed that required multiple and extensive surgeries. And we had 'decent' insurance also. Something has to change, the way things are now is an embarassment.

Again, my point. It should not cost that much for something so necessary. Yes, life is a precious gift. But the experience of a life or death situation should not feel like going to a crooked mechanic afterwards.

Shifting the costs to the government is not fixing the situation. The money has to come from somewhere.
 
  • #13
I doubt most of you have read the rare William Burroughs novel "Bladerunner" - not the same as the movie of that title (which came later and was originally called "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"). Burroughs' Bladerunner is all about this very condition of health care and the lower middle class. It's quite prophetic as it was written in 1977 or so. And quite worth reading if you can somehow locate a copy. I'm just waiting for the medical riots... I've got my two man surgical saw and I'm ready to storm the hospital! :D

Saying we have the best health care in the world and actually proving it are getting more and more impossible and becoming more and more just Glen Becks talking points. If I could I'd move to where they had decent medical care for their people but many of those country's make it hard to emigrate to, for obvious reasons! We have insurance companies here reaping record profits and paying out less and less for procedures (by denying they'll cover them) or making you go into debt to get fixed up, I don't fathom I can call that the best of anything. If you pay insurance at your job and actually get care take advantage of it - I wish I could. I just pay $44 a month for the privilege of having a pair of useless cards in my wallet. When I pay off my current debts I'm planning on going back into debt to get my teeth fixed. I just hope I'll still have some teeth and gums left by the time I can afford to go back in debt!

This is precisely how the gop and many of the dems want it (let's face it), politicians on both sides own stock in these health mega-corpse. Going to a public option where we actually get the care we pay for and deserve would indeed ruin them and I am fine with that. If they can't stifle their greed and do their job let 'em sink. The money thing is all a lie as well, simply to protect the insurance corporations. The US was able to puke up uncounted billions (maybe trillions) for two pointless wars and rebuilding those countries they willfully destroyed. While bridges in our own come crashing down from lack of maintenance. The government needs to start spending some of those billions on the people they're taking it from in the first place. I don't mind paying taxes at all as long as I'm getting something out of it other than the vacuous and insignificant "national security" they chant about all the time. Obama's military budget is 4% higher than Bushes, that's a change but not one I see as for the better.
 
  • #14
I have a real simple solution to all this, move to Canada!! :D

Does it bother me that I pay a lot in taxes, NO! I much prefer knowing that I do not have to pay '1200$ for an ultrasound'... As for healthcare, I believe we have the best system, as EVERYONE gets served, equally and without putting someone in doubt whether they can afford to have it done... It really doesn't nbother me knowing that, even though I am blessed with great health, that my tax dollars are helping someone in dire need, get the assistance they deserve. My gf got thyroid cancer, and I can only imagine how in debt we would be if we had to cover any of the fees needed to cover the surgery, medications, procedures and employees who took care of her for a couple weeks...

It's a sad that someone can use healthcare as a business opertunity. It downright shameful.
 
  • #15
I agree your level of care should not depend upon how much money or insurance you have. That is why I suggest making it affordable by dictating what is reasonable in terms of price and not by asking uncle sam to play insurance company.

Allowing the government to manage healthcare is a grave mistake. They are historically not the best at managing money. When is the last time the US government has had a balanced budget and have spent only what they got from taxes? This is not a republican vs democrat thing as they are both equally pork. Just on different things.

Also, it would only be a matter of time before money received for healthcare would be spent for other purposes just like Social Security. Or worse given to those who have zero vested interest in the fund. It is always easier to repurpose money already received than to raise taxes. Leave the tax raising to the next administration.
 
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  • #16
I agree totally that our heath care system is not spot on when it comes to funding going to the right place. And aside from that, as others mentioned, yes people will abuse of something if they don't have to pay for it. Our hospitals are always packed, and waiting 6-12 hours in the emergency waiting room (depending on the severity of your situation) is common. I can't really give any input as to where the money is going, because it doesn't interest me particularly, however I can safely say that we have something that is honestly irreplaceable, I don't have a deductible to pay for my health, the only one I have is for my house and car, which is where it should be. I find it's really sad to think that some must decide whether they get the health care they need, and then have high annual rates thereafter, OR don't claim and don't get the care you need and live with it... Like Yann said, it should be considered a right, and not a privilege. And it really is the middle class that needs it, it's our tradesmen and women, our "fresh out of school" students, our retirees that need to still keep a job to pay the bills, do I go on... Besides, you guys have much lower taxes than us Canadians, just think of the numbers, the population of Canada is the same size as the population of New York City. With your immense size alone, a tiny percentage increase would be easier to take, than to have to pay your deductible, and then higher rates after that (for those in the middle class).
Just my 2cents.
 
  • #18
The whole health care business is corrupt, as are the people in Washington who are making decisions about it. If our government ever stops spending 2/3 of its budget on killing people in other countries to give the US this false sense that we are safer maybe then we can fund things like health care. The fact that its even a business is half the problem, no profits should be turned when it comes to making sure people have health care, end of story.

As for all of you who keep pointing to other countries with socialized medicine and say how badly it works, at least it works, better than getting no care at all when you dont have insurance. Tell me how you feel about things after your insurance company/employer/source of insurance drops you and you cant afford to go get medical care. Lets see if how you feel about socialized medicine then.
 
  • #19
all i can say is it took Obama 6 months to pick out a dog and yah guys want to let congress pick out health care programs for us over a few weeks? what major, far reaching program that congress or a president come up with in history that has really and truly worked? all the current health care programs the government are in charge of are royally screwed up.....not sure if i want them messing with them.......my wife and i make less than $50,000 a year combined yet even with my wife have an emergency, life saving middle of the night surgery, as well as a minor surgery on her foot that was an elective and not a must at that time within weeks of each other about 8 months ago we are having no problems affording our private health insurance nor paying medical bills.......

at this point i would rather deal with the big bad health care industry than a government health program that congress insists on opting themselves out of cause its not good enough for them.......
 
  • #20
As I say, you're one of the lucky ones with decent insurance. Strive to keep it that way, and use it as much as you can cos it really sucks to pay for insurance and get essentially nothing in return. I know! :-D

(I used that smiley costh he ain't goths no theeth!)
 
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