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Thread: they only kill what they eat.......right............

  1. #9
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    My argument is that receiving a big check removes a big incentive to do anything differently.

    There's a big movement towards guardian dogs. I only know a little about them but am interested in them because I love dogs that work for a living. We started training our late German Shepherd to herd sheep in the early 90s (just for fun) and, although I didn't know it before we started, they aren't a guardian breed. A lot of the big white breeds started as guardians in Europe and they usually don't need to fight off wolves or other predators. Just being there makes a herd/flock a more difficult target and predators generally decide to eat elsewhere.

    But using guardian dogs requires an investment of time and money into training and keeping the dogs, plus changes in flock management. To get all cynical again, why bother with it when the government picks up all the financial risk and then some? I hate to get all conservative and make you come across like the bleeding heart, but government money can make a problem worse.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals — but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    rattler's Avatar
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    a big check isnt much of a supplement to the destruction of 50 years of your blood sweat and tears in a breeding program......this aint some young transplant doing this for kicks.....this was someone serious bout what he was doing....

    as i said dont care what dog yah have its only good one on one with a wolf.....2 on one means a dead dog and alot of these protection breeds DO NOT work well in teams....the pup is raised with the sheep completely, the dog thinks its a sheep but with its protection drive and such it will go up against predators.....still aint much of a protection against 3 or more wolves working as a team......

    dont see why ppls livelihoods should be destroyed so ppl back east can come out hear and see a pile of wolf crap........there is a reason why these animals have been wiped out from major agricultural areas around the globe and why they are left alone in the non-agricultural areas like portions of Canada and Alaska.......wolves and livestock dont mix.......never have, never will.....grizzly and mountain lions do for the most part....they are fairly easy to get along with in fragmented habitats with minimal issues.....wolves do not mix well with people in highly fragmented habitats like in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  3. #11
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    People dealt with wolves for many centuries while tending sheep in Europe & Asia and their guardian dogs played a big role. People certainly feared wolves and killed them when they could but, until urbanization and modern technology gave people the ability to eradicate wolves, guardian dogs kept sheep alive. Why not now?

    Now there are plenty of people who want wolves alive and roaming, just like there are people who want sharks, rattlesnakes and other dangerous critters to thrive. We have to adapt to them and people are great at adapting when they have to. Adaptating takes wisdom, experience, and trial & error. It's hard work. Government policies shouldn't discourage it.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals — but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #12
    Your one and only pest! Ant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    contrary to what Disney says, animals will kill to just to kill and not just to eat aswell.......

    Um, now I don't know how you think but if they are only eating choice bits, they are doing for their health. Now they may not be eating much of the animal, but they are still killing to eat.

  5. #13
    rattler's Avatar
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    Bruce, the wolves were doing just fine in Canada and Alaska, infact they do so well that there is no season, no management needed......they are classified the same way the state of Montana does coyotes.....they are varmints.....yet the populations are perfectly stable.....there was absolutely no reason to "reintroduce" a alpha predator that is twice the size of the ones that were already hear.....and yes there were wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming prior to the reintroductions in the 1990's contrary to what those back east say.....anyone thats spent alot of time hunting the wilderness areas ran across them from time to time....they were in numbers the ecosystem can handle and had a good enough fear of ppl they didnt cause issues.....what has been done is about the same as turning griz loose in Central Park.....it was junk science and pushed by individuals who have no clue what it is actually like to live with alpha predators day after day......notice none of us out here were pushing to wipe out the grizzly though their range is expanding greatly every year...... other than thinking the populations were getting high enough to possibly allow extreamly limited sport hunting, prolly a handful of tags a year between the 3 states.....and none of us out here are yelling up and down that the mountain lions need to go even though their range is expanding quite well too....

    however the wolves are a problem and countray to what yah think they havent been a problem in Europe for a century either.......most the major protection breeds over there that have been kept around in truly working bloodlines are those to protect flocks against the eurasian brown bear......not wolves......

    and Ant, the majority of the above sheep had their throats tore out and were left while they went on to kill the next animal......have personally seen the results of weasels and foxes do the same thing with chickens.....lots of easy prey relatively combined with the prey unable to get away and they tend to kill them all and haul one or two off to eat with no intention of coming back for the rest.....called blood lust....killing just for the sake of killing......not for eating......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  6. #14
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    How about a FENCE?
    17 Nash Rd.
    North Salem, NY 10560

    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

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    So rather than the dead sheep that were "wasted" you'd rather a pile full of dead wolves ?

    I'd consider it to be part of the risk involved with that trade, as far as having to deal with those animals... as you said people have had to deal with them for a very long time and nothing has changed.

    if they dont wanna deal with it maybe they should all quit ranching and go get a desk job far away from the wolves...

  8. #16
    rattler's Avatar
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    a fence how high? ive got a 40 pound dog that can clear a 6 foot fence.......stretched out for how many miles? some of the pastures are many sections in size...(640 acres to a section)......

    cm.....these wolves should have never been "reintroduced", the natural existing wolves that were here went about 70-80 pounds.....the subspecies they reintroduced hits 150 pounds easy......how would you like it if someone decided that instead of reintroducing black bears to an area they said screw it, grizzly are cooler lets put them there......this guy started ranching 35 years before someone got the bright idea to dump a bunch of wolves in his lap.....he should leave his own private land and give up his livelihood because idiots practicing junk science?

    maybe we should kick you out of Kansas so 1,000,000 buffalo, wolves and grizzly can roam Kansas once again.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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