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Thread: Fined / Jailed for not having insurance: are they insane?

  1. #17
    rattler's Avatar
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    they have not been our representatives for a very long time....they cant run a balanced budget to save their rear.....balance the budget than ill be interested in looking at health care reform......

    DC has been worthless since they discovered they can vote for their own pay raises and can make a career out of being a politician....hell Montana had a budget surplus last year...one of TWO states to have such...and we have some medical programs for those that cant afford insurance.....we also have term limits that make it difficult to make a career out of being a "representative" of the ppl....what we have in DC is just like what California has.....and the only reason the Feds aint paying bills with IOU's is cause they have the keys to the building where you print the money....
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  2. #18
    dashman's Avatar
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    Illegal immigrants make up less than 7% of the population.
    That is a huge number and should be considered unacceptable. It is estimated that 1/2 of illegal immigrants originating from Mexico are in California. If you want to see a snapshot of what will happen if we continue to allow this to occur just take a look at California's balance sheet.

    A state run healthcare isn't fixing the issue, it is hiding and distributing the cost of why healthcare is so high in the first place. The issue is that so many people get it for free. The healthcare industry in this free market system is simply trying to recoup it's losses by charging more to the paying consumer which is not fair no matter who collects and distributes the money whether it be a private insurer or the government.

    I do agree that immigration policy is a seperate topic, although directly related to the cost of healtcare. However, we do need to toughen our immigration policies and secure our borders. That's change I can believe in.

  3. #19

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    Death panels. Subsidized insurance for illegal immigrants. Jail time for the uninsured. The conservative talk show and Fox "News" ranters have succeeded in limbaugh-tomizing their loyal, unquestioning followers into believing in their alternative universe, where the truth of what someone says doesn't matter as much as how loud they are saying it.

    In the real world, 45,000 Americans are dying annually because they don't have health care insurance, and the percentage of Americans who don't have health care insurance is rising. Furthermore, based on historical figures, health care insurance premiums are expected to double in 10 years to about $25,000 a year for a family of 4. What we have is an inhumane system that is becoming less and less viable. And the teabaggers oppose a change.

    A few Republican Senators were waving a Republican bill in the air when Obama addressed the joint session of Congress recently. It was their version of health care reform. It was silly. I almost felt sorry for them for making fools of themselves because the bill does very little to change anything.

    The opponents of real health care reform have loud voices, but they are relatively few in number, and they are concentrated in the South. Most of the rest of the country wants health care reform.

    Opponents may be able to influence what ultimately gets passed, but they can't stop health care reform. Some kind of health care reform will be passed, and the U.S. will be the better for it.

  4. #20
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    ...and the only reason the Feds aint paying bills with IOU's is cause they have the keys to the building where you print the money....
    I'm not happy about inflation either, but it's not like the Feds came up with inflation just to screw us over. Big industry has been doing that since the early 1900s.
    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    A state run healthcare isn't fixing the issue, it is hiding and distributing the cost of why healthcare is so high in the first place.
    That's not entirely true. It does distribute costs, yes, but in doing so it actually lowers the overall cost; that's what insurance is, by definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    The issue is that so many people get it for free.
    Is it that the uninsured are getting it for free, or that the uninsured often wait until they need to be hospitalized because routine care is not available? I don't have the numbers handy, but I know that there are orders of magnitude between the true costs associated with outpatient and inpatient care. That argument doesn't really stand up so far as I can tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    The healthcare industry in this free market system is simply trying to recoup it's losses by charging more to the paying consumer which is not fair no matter who collects and distributes the money whether it be a private insurer or the government.
    That's laughable. I need a prescription that costs me more a month than my rental house, simply because a pharmaceutical company holds a monopoly on it and it's used to treat a series of exceedingly rare and debilitating disorders. They aren't trying to recoup their costs on it; development was supported by a number of private and military interests, as are many of their studies. Commercial healthcare is shamelessly exploitative and their lobbyists have a vicegrip on regulation, at both the state and federal level. They aren't taking losses on the displacement of costs at all; they're raking it in. The consumer is the only one getting shafted here. I, for one, want better options, and I know I'm not going to get them by begging sympathy from a bunch of Wall Street bigwigs. Government intervention is rarely as good as one would hope, but it's my only option.
    If you were cornered by a bear and all you had was a rifle that kicked too hard, would you hesitate to shoot? A broken collarbone is better than being mauled.
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  5. #21
    rattler's Avatar
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    Jail time for the uninsured
    actually you havent read the bill introduced by my senator....i have, there are fines in there for those that choose not to have insurance that can afford it......actually his bill was one of the easier to read as it was a fairly short one.....read up before calling BS....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  6. #22

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    Commenting on the objection to the allegation that there would be jail time for the uninsured:

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler View Post
    actually you havent read the bill introduced by my senator....i have, there are fines in there for those that choose not to have insurance that can afford it......actually his bill was one of the easier to read as it was a fairly short one.....read up before calling BS....
    Since you've read up, where does the bill say the penalty is jail time for not paying the fine for failing to get insurance? (Please cite the name of the measure and section.)

    By the way, in the Senate Finance Committee the Chairman's Mark of America's Healthy Future Act of 2009 (Baucus' version, recently released) is 220 pages in length. So either you're a fast reader or you're talking about something else.

  7. #23
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    LMAO You guys voted for him. I knew he was talking out his butt when he started campaigning. All you had to do was listen to him. I actually liked him in the beginning before he started bidding for president. Before anyone knew anything about him. But once he hit the scene you could smell the 2 faced socialist agenda all the way down here in GA.

    ---------- Post added at 06:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 AM ----------

    LMAO I dont think you guys have ANY ******* clue. How many of you guys take into consideration the number of people who choose to go without health insurance because they set aside their own funds for that purpose? I know many Doctors like that. They are self insured. Did you know the trucking company Swift is like that too? Self insured. They carry enough money in reserve to pay any Insurance claims.

    Seedjar, I am sorry you have a need for a medication that cost over 700 a month. May I ask what drug it is? Maybe it is in limited use. Even if it is new and monopolized the patent will run out then generics can be made. But the US is the one market where they can recoup research costs. Do I think reform needs to happen? Absolutely, but not in the socialistic form our dear president wants.

    One of the reason our costs are so high is because of the outrageous amount juries want to give people in malpractice lawsuits. Medicine is NOT I repeat NOT an exact science. Doctors Guess and guess often. Not everyone symptoms are the same and not everyone's bodily reactions to things are the same. When a Doctor performs a surgery or procedure, there are side effects. There are things that happen unintentionally. Then when one of those things happens people want to sue the Doctor who was trying to help them. Not to mention everyone is out for a quick buck and what better way than with a malpractice suit. For those of you who don't know. I am a nurse and see it all the time. Before that i was a Surgical tech. I see the Doctors practicing defensive medicine all the time. They don't want to get sued and that ends up costing the system more money as well. There was one Doctor I used to work with. A GYN Doctor who would do a scope on a lady for about 30 seconds and then immediately open. he would tell you as a tech up front. I asked him why one day and he said the INS company would not pay him for the procedure unless he did a "diagnostic" procedure first. The doc already knew what needed to be done. Just had to do the second procedure and bill for it so he could get paid for doing it in the first place.

    Then you have those folks who don't have Ins who come in for emergency surgery. Th prognosis is very slim for this person to survive, but the family wants everything done. So of course we do it, but they don't have INS. So the Hospital ends up eating the cost of sometimes multiple surgeries only for the Pt to expire anyway. Because the prognosis was bad to begin with. Or how about the person we are doing the 3rd leg bypass on who is uninsured and doesn't want to quit smoking? So she continues to make her PVD worse by smoking. There are countless examples of this I can find. Now I am a nurse and all for helping people, but the system can only take so much. There are hospitals going under because of non paying people.

    OHHHHHHHHH And one other factor in the mix with healthcare costs. Medicare has been cutting its reimbursements every year. I spoke with one anesthesiologist and he said he is making half the amount now as he was several years ago on medicare Pts. This was several years ago when he told me this. Here is the kicker. Every time medicare/medicaid drops its reimbursements the INS companies fallow suit. On some procedures the hospital and Docs do not recoup the amount needed for manpower and supplies. So the hospital opts not to perform those surgeries anymore. They do have control over the procedures performed by the surgeons at their facility.

    Then another factor is cost is the amount of people who use the ER as a primary care facility. It is not designed for that. I think we all know about that though.

    Then another factor is America has become FAT AND LAZY!!! Rely on too much fast food and the easy way out. I know I'm not a small guy by no means but I am attempting to stay healthy so I don't have to go to the Doctor. Many people in America don't give a rats butt and eat till they pop every day. Sit on their fat butts in front of video games or TV eating the sugar laden foods they buy with their EBT. (((Ok horrible dramatization. I know not everyone sits on their fat rump eating foods you and I bought. Many do it with foods they actually worked for.))) The fact is rich or poor America is getting too fat and not staying healthy.

    Ok done with my soap box. Let the JB bashing begin!!!!! I can feel it already!! the fact I am a nurse and work in the field will never ring in some peoples mind. Just think I'm cruel and cold hearted. What is cruel and cold hearted is the fact that Hospitals have to run 8-10 pts a nurse sometimes because they can't afford to pay for the right amount of staff because the system is so screwed up. I am one for reform, just not the type of reform that brings about a socialistic one payer system. If I want to live in socialism I would go to Cuba or China. Hasn't anyone noticed how much more productive and booming China is now that they are becoming less socialistic?
    JB
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  8. #24
    swords's Avatar
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    I'm back, had to go to work... I'm glad everyone is discussing but behaving themselves. Perhaps the only one panicking is me, maybe I should let up on my speculative fiction writing... I'll be running around with a foil hat over my robe before long!

    I have insurance, for now, that I can afford. Should I get laid off though then what? I could take my insurance with me (which they've been promoting) but it would be at the cost of my unemployment check. I know cos I've been through that already through another company's lay off in 2001. As it stands, without some $400 premium hanging over me I could just make it with an unemployment check until I found another job. Which would again have insurance.

    I don't think this is "socialism" by any stretch of the imagination. This is blatant capitalist piggery of the kind only America could devise. I want to see the stock portfolios of the guys coming up with these ideas. They're handing 30,000,000 new customers to the for-profit insurance industry and giving them a green light to swipe "up to" 13% of your income. Do you think they'll settle for less if they don't have to? They'll surely find a way to wring every red cent out of you. I don't pay anywhere near 13% of my income now for my insurance. I don't believe this sort of "individually mandated reform" will do much more than ruin a lot of people's lives that are already in the dumper.

    Obama's becoming the polar opposite of why I voted for him. So far we've got increased military spending (cutting the experiments and increasing munitions), calls for troop increases, picking new fights/wars and soon to be decimating the lower middle class (by that I mean the 10 - 30K year folks). I told you guys they put electrodes in his brain that day he met with Bush behind closed doors... lol

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