alot of the laws started with no set punishment guidelines, its only after the laws went into effect and judges and juries were giving widely different punishments for the same crime that the standards were put....there are all kinds of crimes with no set punishment on the books, usually minor crimes, that a judge uses their discretion on how to punish the individual...i aint saying your going to do years in a federal pen for not doing it but i can defiantly see yah sitting for 30 days....
250 pages in the 5 days i actually did it aint much, thats 50 pages a day and they aint cramming lots of words on a page, i used to finish off a 300 some page novel in a day and a half when i wasnt working....given right now im nursing a back injury ive got lots of time at work sitting at my desk to read....
will say that the committe on Baucus's bill voted down an admendment to it today that would have required the final bill in the committee to be released for the public to read 72 hours before they voted on it.....apparently its so important they cant take an extra 3 days to allow the general public to read it.
Rattler can anyone read it or is it press only? If yes have you got a link?
250 pages isn't anything at all. If it's interesting/paced reading I can read two 400 page Warhammer 40K SF novels in a 12 hour shift at work when we've got absolutely nothing to do. Of course, a health care bill won't have as many explosions or nifty space marines!
Originally Posted by Tropics
the part that is missing is that those "other countries" dont have a huge segment of the population who have been trained by (a segment of) the government to rely on them for everything..we have a HUGE dependcy class, who dont want to work, because they dont have to work, because (a segment of) the government tells them they dont have to..
Free healthcare for all is a continuation of this problem..not a solution to it.
Story in the local newspaper yesterday:
I live in Monroe County, NY..
which has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the USA..(nearby Niagara county, NY is #1, and the top 10 counties are ALL in NY state)
why are our tax rates so high??
because NY state takes money from those who own property, and gives it to those who dont..
its really that simple..Democrats in office have set it up this way..their jobs depend on it.
Its the same thing with democrats running the whole country..just on a much more massive scale..NY state is on the verge of collapse because of the dependcy class democrats have created..so is the whole country.
If you are a homeowner in another state..take the full market value of your home and multiply it by 0.035
thats how you much you would pay in annual property tax if you lived in NY state..
and its probably what you will be paying eventually if this madness doesnt stop..
and it shows no signs of stopping..its actualluy gotten much worse in the last 8 months..
SOMEONE has to pay for all this!
who will it be? it will be you..
This thread is actually refreshing!
finally some people who voted for Obama are waking up and seeing what they really voted for..
this is a good thing..
My CP page: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP
Well had I not voted for Obama I wouldn't have voted. No way I'd have voted for Palin, I'm not looking for a Jesus mullah. I was never much on these so called elections, as they used to say "if voting changed anything they'd make it illegal". Obama seems to be proving the only actual difference between a republican and democrat is the lies they tell to get elected. Underneath neither of them view the lower middle class as anything but wage slaves. Which is better than having real slaves since they don't feel any need to feed and medicate the wage slaves. He got a lot of eggheads by using the right words but just like Clinton it seems to have covered a different agenda than initially anticipated. I'm not "anti-Obama" in the same way as Foilhats News or anything but I'm not seeing the Changes I was Hoping for. It seems to be going in the opposite direction IMHO.
I am still very much for health care insurance reform, making it cheap enough for everyone to afford it who wants it but being forced into it or fined (and possibly jailed) is just crazy. He said during the election that he would not make it a mandate and yet here we are. Him and Clinton running around saying it's the same as paying car insurance. I don't pay 13% of my income for car insurance! So far I've been an awesome driver never a ticket, never a wreck, I pay almost nothing and it's only once or twice a year. If I didn't wanna pay car insurance I'd quit driving (or move to Wisconsin). Unless you kill yourself you won't have any choice in paying on this for profit insurance rap, or pay the fines.
As far as deadbeats freeloading if they know how to do it they're already doing it, deadbeats will always find a way. Minnesota has "the best welfare in the tri-state area" so they say. However, I tried to apply for aid when I was laid off before, I don't know all the right buzzwords I guess. I did get unemployment checks though.
Yet some CEOs rake in 65 mil a year and find something to complain about when they loose a couple mil to taxes. Is that 2-3 million really going to make that much of a difference in your life? I seriously doubt that.
swords....in general, and in all reality the way it really should work, if the press has access to it everyone does.....the press is the general public they just have the teeth to fight for stuff and get it a lil faster than the average Joe would....
as far as the bill itself, they are required to give it to the public when its introduced to the committee but we technically arent required to see a copy of it again until after the committee votes on it and it heads out to the senate floor.....since Obama stated he wanted things to be "transparent" , or atleast thats what he preached during his campaign, now that he is in office his view on this has seemed to change, one of the members of the committee thought they should post the final copy of the bill for 3 days after it was completed to get public comment on it before they vote on it.....apparently they dont want that though IIRC the vote was 11 to 12 or something close to that so it barely didnt get passed.....by the time it is out of committee Baucus's bill could be 1,000 pages long instead of the 250 it was introduced as.....by the time the senate gets done with it who knows how big it could be....
here is what frustrates me, Montana operates with a balanced budget and even had a surplus last year.....we have state run programs to help those who cant afford insurance, especially for kids in low income homes.....last fall i voted for increasing my taxes to expand this program as did the majority of Montanans even though my kids dont qualify cause we make just above the line.....once it goes into effect in the next few months there likely wont be a single kid in the state that couldnt be covered with health insurance, cause either their parents can afford it or the state will pick up the tab.....and yet we will still do it with a balanced budget.....and without a sales tax....
bring federal spending under control and ill be interested in looking at similar nation wide....but why in the hell would i be fore it when the feds spend more money than they take in.....push an amendment to the Constitution that states the feds must operate under a balanced budget, you and i have to or we wind up broke and homeless, why shouldnt the feds be required to do the same?
Regarding jail time, the Senate Finance Committee just adopted an amendment to its bill (generally considered to be the closest to what will ultimately pass) that eliminates the potential for criminal penalties for U.S. residents who do not obtain health care insurance coverage. The amendment also exempts from the individual mandate to obtain health care insurance those people who cannot find insurance that costs 8% of their income or less.
Although not in the Senate Finance Committee bill (yet), the public option seems to be making a comeback in other versions of health care reform. Some of the same people who talk about government agencies being inefficient and wasteful are afraid of having to compete with one. These are the guys in the health care insurance industry. They own the Republicans. That's why there was no effort to reform health care during the forgettable Bush years. (At least we wish those years were forgettable. We keep getting reminded of the Bush years when we realize we are still in the midst of a terrible economy.)
After being considered for decades, there's finally a good chance to reform health care to make it affordable for all Americans.
That's some OK news coming out of this bailout for the health insurance companies that they're currently calling "health care reform". But like anything, I'll believe it when we're all suffering through it. I'm more and more skeptical all the time, and I was all for getting everyone care initially, but not like this. I can't believe they're letting Baucus run this bacchanal - he's the biggest health insurance money hamper in the Senate. Some 3.5 million dollars last year alone.
I can kinda see the reason for not jailing these people though, if they were inmates they'd probably end up getting free health care...
When did they decide to drop it from 13% to 8%? That's better but still insane... how the hell am I supposed to afford that? I don't have $500 extra dollars a month to send off to these greedy ********. I probably only pay 1% of my income for my insurance at work. I can't wait to see what happens when this passes and everyone's premium's go up 10X. They thought the home foreclosures were bad before!
I saw this today: health overhaul may raise medicare RX costs a little something to look forward to as we get older along with the government having stolen our Social Security money and replaced it with peeing on our shoes.
"Do they owe us a living?
Of course they do! Of course they do!"
once again force congress to run a balanced budget FIRST.....than look at health care otherwise everones taxes are going to go up as well as you having to pay out of pocket for health care.....if individual states can do it, why cant the feds? anything else is just insane......push comes to shove its gotta be paid for some way.....our country going deeper and deeper into the hole is going to come back to bite us in the ****.....the deeper the hole, the worse its gonna hurt....why add on this "health care reform" and dig even faster and make the eventual pain worse.....this instant gratification BS is going to wind up killing us.......
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 AM ----------
BTW anytime someone starts screaming its the republicans fault or its the democrats fault just proves you have blinders on.....DC as a whole is a bunch of crooks......minimal exceptions, sure in the hell aint isolated to one party......Obamas attempted appointments to his cabinet should show you that....even with a democratic congress Bush only had a single choice blocked.....with a democratic congress how many couldnt Obama get through?
Bush was a moron and a crappy president but the double standard bout ppl who tore apart Bush looking the other way over the BS Obama has pulled when they would have skinned Bush for the exact same thing is deafening....you look the other way because of the (D) after his name.......morons..........
---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ----------
These are some great questions. If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how he inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?
If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown ad given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?
If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?
If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the fourth of May (Cuatro de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?
If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word advice would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of what a dunce he is?
If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?
If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually get what happened on 9-11?
If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?
If George20W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?
So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive?
Can't think of anything?
Don't worry, he still has another 3+ years to go.