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Thread: lighting spectrum

  1. #9
    sea bear returns! theyellowdart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Av8tor1 View Post

    This is very true.... it's 300% (Id have to dig though my data to get you a specific ref, but its well documented)
    Thanks... I knew it was some insane percentage like that. lol
    growlist

    Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

  2. #10
    blokeman's Avatar
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    I started with one T5HO 6500K, but noticed it lacked, mainly because i wasn't using a reflector. So I moved it up to two T5HO's and saw an improvement. When I added reflectors, it made all the difference in the world.

    If T5's are better than T12's, I have no doubt in my mind. A lot of bulb is pointing in the wrong direction with T12's, no reflector can maximize a T12 as well as one for a T5 IMO. And T5's last much longer too(at near optimal efficiency).. How is this even debateable..
    Grow list...
    http://terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114907

    “Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” C.S. Lewis

  3. #11
    Hermopolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Av8tor1 View Post
    Herm,
    I have to ask, but have you ever grown plants using T5's? Have you found the need for 10?
    Going by my personal experience with them, I cant see the need for 10 tubes for a typical grow shelf... that just blows me away
    Nope, but I use 575W of MH's and 280W of CF's with excellent results. Have I found a need for 10 tubes? No, but again I don't use them. But if I was to duplicate my setup using T5s, I would need 10-12 tubes. But all this depends upon the size and depth of the growing rack. I illuminate 8 sq/ft at 24" from the light source. Would you say that 2 T5 tubes would be adequate for such a setup? Would 2 tubes even be adequate for a 6 sq/ft at 12" depth that is typical of normal grow racks? If you did, that would certainly blow me away.

    This is why I said "you may need." Again, it all depends upon what his setup is as to what he will need. Yet, it appears that the tendency among adopters of T5s is to underscale not overscale their setups. You know, it would be very helpful if you carefully read my posts before commenting, Professor.

    -Hermes.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades. But the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

    My Grow List Updated Oct 22/2010.

  4. #12
    jimmy uphwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyellowdart View Post
    T5's aren't much better if you aren't getting a fixture with individual polished reflectors, which dramatically increase the efficiency and output of each bulb. I don't have exact numbers, but I know it's something crazy like double (or more) output with the polished reflectors. If you aren't getting a fixture with those, then I personally wouldn't bother with T5's at all - too hot, not worth the money (IMO), need more bulbs, etc, etc.
    Be prepared to pay though, nice fixtures are not cheap.

    Which one were you planning on getting? Do you have a link?
    The unit im buying locally , they are ordering in with their stock order they do every other week ,
    it does have reflectors but not polished, but neither do the t 12 fixtures.
    the units im planing are 70.00 no shipping charges, each two bulb fixture, too much?
    i will have to wire them my self may need a little advise on this aspect,but i am going to try one fixture. sorry i dont know the model # but will when it arrives it is High Output. thats about all i know about them.

  5. #13
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermopolis View Post
    Nope, but I use 575W of MH's and 280W of CF's with excellent results. Have I found a need for 10 tubes? No, but again I don't use them. But if I was to duplicate my setup using T5s, I would need 10-12 tubes. But all this depends upon the size and depth of the growing rack. I illuminate 8 sq/ft at 24" from the light source. Would you say that 2 T5 tubes would be adequate for such a setup? Would 2 tubes even be adequate for a 6 sq/ft at 12" depth that is typical of normal grow racks? If you did, that would certainly blow me away.

    This is why I said "you may need." Again, it all depends upon what his setup is as to what he will need. Yet, it appears that the tendency among adopters of T5s is to underscale not overscale their setups. You know, it would be very helpful if you carefully read my posts before commenting, Professor.

    -Hermes.
    Hermes, you said for a typical rack... and in the other thread of swords you came back and said that you were talking about a 400 watt Input fixture when they dont exist or if they do they are not typical either

    I dont know of anyone who uses 10 tubes, much less 12... none

    read your post carefully? LOL

    How about you stop making wild statements based upon something you've read on the Internet Especially, when you dont have any actual experience with the item in question, Student

    Im glad you use MH, nice lights. Ive personally grown plants using T12, T8, T5, MH and LEDs at one time or another, and I have 3 spectrometers that I use to "personally" measure their spectral preformance

    Av

    ---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

    Here is 8 sq. ft at 24" + distance

    Typical rack, with 6 5000k 85CRI bulbs






    Top shelf performance





    (last image was taken outside to show the colors were indeed true)

    You see Student, I know I'm no expert on lighting but my T5 comments are not based upon something that Ive read online or heard second hand. However, they are from actual experience and experimentation with the different lighting formats.

    Av

  6. #14
    swords's Avatar
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    hey Av8tor, I'm a might confused now on T5s, They do not operate efficiently (better light than T12) unless I allow the lighting cabinet to get to 35*C?
    I was planning to fill my area with wind so there wouldn't be any chance of letting the temps get that high if I decide to go with T5s and not the 8 fts.
    I've just received 10x 35 CFM fans to put in the shelf part of my wall unit to expel heat. T5s can't actually run cool/room temp and be any good or rather their effectiveness is reduced to T12 levels anyway?

  7. #15
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    No, not the cabinet really, the term ambient is a little misleading in this case... the cold spot of the bulb is what matters. Just looking at ambient temps is an over simplification.

    The efficiency of all fluorescent lights drop once their cold spot temps drop below rated value. But this isn't really an issue, the center of my bulbs reach 160f (hottest spot for the T5) so they have no problem staying warm.

    While it is true they need to run hotter then the other two common fluorescent formats.... their higher wattage and smaller surface area pretty takes care of this with room to spare. In fact as the T5 bulb ages its cold spot temps continue to rise. They require a end of life shutdown circuit in the ballast or this temp rise would continue to rise until the temp becomes critical and actually burns through the bulb itself.

    Ron, has talked about running into that problem when using a certain brand of CFL some time ago...

    Now if you were trying to install them outside during the winter or in a cold storage warehouse, then yes... you may have issues with a loss of efficiency.

    Mine are in an unheated basement and I use fans... I have no issues, in fact most people complain about them running too hot. I don't know if I've ever heard a CP'er talk about their T5's running too cold

    For freezer use, you can get short tubes that cover the cold spot region of the T5 to boost the temps back up

    I have personally verified proper cold spot temps in my application

    Is it possible, sure... is it likely in our application where we have multiple bulbs in mounted in highly efficient reflectors, (not only for the visible light but also the infrared spectrum), in my experience, no.

    I would not point an air condition duct directly at them, but that's true for any format.

    If the cold spot of the bulbs feels warm to you in normal operation, then you're just fine mate. If you are going to run ultrahighland temps with lots of airflow then separate the fixture with a thin layer of glass

    Or even go with another option... but under that scenario you are going to have reduced efficiency issues with t8's, t12's and MH as well

    Google "T5 cold spot" for more info

    Av

  8. #16
    swords's Avatar
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    My intention was to run the fans across the lid glass (lexan) in an X shape (corner to corner and out the open back) with about 1-2" of gap between the glass and the lamp bottoms so there would be plenty of airflow across the sealed tops of the tanks. Plus the air/humidity duct putting cool air inside the tanks not on the lamps themselves.

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