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Thread: and the fight begins....

  1. #1
    rattler's Avatar
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    and the fight begins....

    HELENA Montana doesn't have the authority to exempt itself from national gun control laws, the federal government argued in new court filings, hoping to beat back a movement from states adopting the Firearms Freedom Act.

    The Department of Justice, in a brief filed this week in U.S. District Court in Missoula, said that federal gun control is a "valid exercise of Congress' commerce power under the Constitution."

    The agency asked a judge to dismiss a lawsuit filed last year by gun advocates in Montana who argued the state should decide which rules, if any, would control the sale and purchase of guns and paraphernalia made in Montana. The state would then be exempt from rules on federal gun registration, background checks and dealer-licensing.

    The lawsuit followed overwhelming support in the state Legislature for an act that declared Montana's sovereignty on the issue. That Montana Firearms Freedom Act was subsequently signed by Gov. Brian Schweitzer.

    Gun advocates want a court declaration preventing federal agents from enforcing federal gun laws on Montana-made equipment. They said it's disappointing the Justice Department would seek a dismissal of the suit rather than arguing its merits.

    "The first import of this response is that the legal game is now on," said Gary Marbut of the Montana Shooting Sports Association.

    Tennessee adopted a clone of the Montana act, which has been proposed in many other states.

    The Justice Department argued in its brief that the state act is pre-empted by federal gun control. It also said the advocates don't have standing to bring the lawsuit.

    The brief said the 1934 National Firearms Act was first put in place to regulate guns that could be "used readily and efficiently by criminals or gangsters."

    Congress followed it in 1968 with a gun control act aimed at decreasing serious crime, and further strengthened its control over interstate commerce, the brief points out.

    Those laws and others all mean to keep tabs on guns that easily pass between state borders, the Justice Department argued.

    "To achieve this goal, Congress put in place a comprehensive scheme to regulate the movement of firearms in commerce," the government lawyers wrote in their brief.
    keep in mind we passed this legislation looking for the fight......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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    Lover of Mountains nightsky's Avatar
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    States rights are waning, while federal gov't and its power over states grows. It's a saddening trend, and I'm not just talking about this specific issue. Across the board the fed gov't is doing this on many issues.

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    Good to hear. Bring on the fight. Just because the federal government wants more control doesn't mean we should give it to them. We are the people, we should decide how much power they should have. Not them and thier lawyers with obscure scenarios of how the sale of guns falls under commerce. The act of sale falls under control. The right of ownership does not. Which of the two takes precidence? An act or a right?

    Sale to a felon, sure I can buy that. Sale to a citizen, you have no authority to limit sale on something they have a right to posses.

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    rattler's Avatar
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    actually the feds only have control over a felony that has federal jurisdiction.....a Montana citizen that only committed a felony that broke Montana law can petition the MT court for his gun rights back......they are usually returned in non-violet felonies.....not so much with the violent ones......

    ---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------

    sale of guns does fall under commerce......HOWEVER via the Constitution only interstate sales should fall under the jurisdiction of the feds but due to some crappy Supreme Court rulings from 60 years ago or so the feds think they get to control anything that could possibly cross state lines....one of these decisions is Wickard v. Filburn

    From:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

    Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), was a U.S. Supreme Court decision that dramatically increased the power of the federal government to regulate economic activity. A farmer, Roscoe Filburn, was growing wheat to feed his chickens. The U.S. government had imposed limits on wheat production based on acreage owned by a farmer, in order to drive up wheat prices during the Great Depression, and Filburn was growing more than the limits permitted. Filburn was ordered to destroy his crops and pay a fine.

    The Supreme Court, interpreting the United States Constitution's Commerce Clause (which permits the United States Congress to "regulate Commerce . . . among the several States") decided that, because Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for chicken feed on the open market, and because wheat was traded nationally, Filburn's production of more wheat than he was allotted was affecting interstate commerce, and so could be regulated by the federal government.
    the feds are arguing that since a rifle sold to one person can enter interstate commerce via that person selling it to a third party that they have jurisdiction.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Texas will just become its own country. Just kidding, but not really

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    cmm889's Avatar
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    this is another one of those " topics ". I dont really enjoy getting into these debates on TF since I come here for relaxation instead of the normal debates that are constantly going on news programs and etc.

    how hypocritical of me though becuase I'm about to state my opinion on the matter and I'm about... ehhh 250% sure that its an unpopular one...so Im going to do my best not to return to the thread for more debating.. :P

    but nonetheless in my opinion i believe that all guns that can be concealed should be illegal. basically all handguns and pistols. I believe everyone has the right to own a gun for sport/hunting and even self defense of their own property. I dont believe they should be legally allowed to be carried around "willy nilly" however. you can defend your house with a rifle or a shotgun.

    but then what about all the gangsters and people who already have pistols or would obtain them illegally right? well... the only reason thats an issue to the degree that it is today in the US is becuase they were legal in the first place. someones gotta make the first step.

    obviously police, security and military would be excempt from this...

    pistols and handguns were made to kill people and be carried around all the time with ease... i think thats ridiculous.

    I know its an unpopular stance...just sharing my 2 cents.

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    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmm889 View Post
    this is another one of those " topics ". I dont really enjoy getting into these debates on TF since I come here for relaxation instead of the normal debates that are constantly going on news programs and etc.

    how hypocritical of me though becuase I'm about to state my opinion on the matter and I'm about... ehhh 250% sure that its an unpopular one...so Im going to do my best not to return to the thread for more debating.. :P

    but nonetheless in my opinion i believe that all guns that can be concealed should be illegal. basically all handguns and pistols. I believe everyone has the right to own a gun for sport/hunting and even self defense of their own property. I dont believe they should be legally allowed to be carried around "willy nilly" however. you can defend your house with a rifle or a shotgun.

    but then what about all the gangsters and people who already have pistols or would obtain them illegally right? well... the only reason thats an issue to the degree that it is today in the US is becuase they were legal in the first place. someones gotta make the first step.

    obviously police, security and military would be excempt from this...

    pistols and handguns were made to kill people and be carried around all the time with ease... i think thats ridiculous.

    I know its an unpopular stance...just sharing my 2 cents.

    I'll risk being unpopular by agreeing with you I TOTALLY agree, but the one huge road block we'll always run into is that not everyone plays fair, therefore I have a right to defend myself with a concealed weapon. I do strongly advocate the right though to defend your home. And being that I am from Texas and live in a small town, you can bet that I get flack for this one.

    Phil

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    rattler's Avatar
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    thank god the Supreme Court dont agree with you.....in the right circumstances i can conceal most of my hunting rifles without to much fuss......cracked most of us up after Columbine when our school said it was going to crack down.....had we wanted to we coulda got our 12 gauges with their 28 inch barrels into the school without being noticed quite easily.....the only gun ive come across that i would have a hard time getting into a school or most anywhere unnoticed is an Armalite AR-50 single shot, bolt action 50BMG but its 5 feet long and 40 pounds.....i can get most any hunting rifle with a 24 inch barrel into most anyplace i want, aint hard to conceal if yah know how.....

    Montana only has concealed carry laws inside city limits, once you leave city limits you can carry concealed without a permit if you can legally own the handgun.....no big deal to get the sheriff to sign off on you getting a concealed carry permit anyway.....open carry where everyone can see is also perfectly legal by anyone who can legally own the gun.....do you know why breakins when ppl are home are rare in Montana? cause there are more guns than ppl in the state and we can use deadly force if nessisary, criminals know this and tend to wait for you to leave to break in....

    also the cops dont care, when i was 16 i got pulled over for a taillight being out, i was coming home from my uncles ranch where i had been shooting ground squirrels all day, had 6 rifles laying on the back seat, highway ptrol gave me a warning, didnt mention the rifles though he saw them, didnt even ask if they were loaded cause had they been i woulda still been legal....

    you figure i live in a county bigger than the state of Rhode Island and at any one time might have 8 or 9 cops on duty, even living in town if you call 911 it may take 10-30 minutes for a cop to show up, its just understood that your allowed to defend yourself.......cops are for picking up the pieces after crap has gone wrong, they arent responsible, legally or otherwise, for preventing anything....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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