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Thread: Republicans desperate

  1. #17
    dashman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiana Gardener View Post
    Weren't the contents of our treasury handed over to the private bank during the depression as some kind of an emergency act? That's another thing that needs to change.
    No, they took over in 1910. 20 years later, we suffered through the great depression. Since then we have had a few recessions caused by cycles of inflation and deflation.

    The founding fathers warned us against doing this...

    A quote by Thomas Jefferson...

    "If the America people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

    My children wake up to a 20+ trillion dollar deficit. Many people's children wake up homeless.

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiana Gardener View Post
    No argument there. I for one am tired of paying for everyone who unlike myself is not young and healthy. I just don't want to trade that in for being held hostage by a government that can pass any law it sees fit by bypassing whatever necessary legal processes it sees fit.
    Would you just let the old and sick die then? We are beyond this selfishness as a country. The rest of the modern world takes care of the less fortunate, and in the rest of the world, nobody goes without heath care. Even most poor nations.

    The price of our health care is not high because we cover old, sick, and poor people. It is high because we pay for billions of dollars in profit for health insurers, we pay for their executive bonuses (over $100million last year alone for Cigna's top dog), and we pay for big pharma's hold on the system, and we pay for overcharged items like $40 tongue depressors, and we pay for expensive lawyers and malpractice paranoia (though this is only 2% of the cost.)

    Medicare has its own problems, but they distribute money much more efficiently than private health insurers, with administrative costs many times lower than the privates. The idea that the mythical "free market" produces more efficient solutions is a myth. It is simply a bad idea to put a private industry that makes money solely by denying care in between us and our doctors. Our doctors and hospitals are great - leave them alone. Let's just get them their money in a much more efficient, humanitarian way.

    And by the way, they are "voting" for the bill, and a majority of votes will pass it. That's not some illegal or nefarious process, it's democracy.
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  3. #19
    rattler's Avatar
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    We have the most expensive, but not the best, health care system in the world. We pay almost double what most first-world, modern nations do.
    not quite....ppl who claim this cite crappy facts.....they will say out death on infants is higher than Canada.....not true, we are pretty well equal but there is a HUGE difference in how both countries report the numbers.....Canada only counts babies that live for the first 24 hours as live births, only after the infant lives for 24 hours than dies do they count it towards their infant mortality rate....in the US all still births get counted in infant mortality rates that are reported.....the two countries are using two different seta of data, you are comparing apples to oranges.....

    as for the expense of healthcare.....up until 2 years ago i spent alot of time up in Canada, ive got alot of friends up there.....its true most Canadians are happy with their system.....well that is until you get in a serious discussion with someone from the US with the same sort of no emergency problems that they have.....a couple of my buddys up there could not believe that i could get an MRI done and have surgery done on my knee MONTHS before they could even get in for an MRI....i know of many Canadians that have flown overseas to have knee replacements and paid for it out of their own pocket cause the Canadian system works so damn slow.....

    besides take 1/3 of Canadas population and that is the number of illegal immigrants in this country that we get stuck with treating and do not collect taxes on to pay for it.......if you take 12 million illegals not paying taxes and ship them up to Canada their health care system will implode a heck of alot faster than it already is....
    cervid serial killer
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  4. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    Would you just let the old and sick die then?
    Have you ever actually worked within a part of the government?

    I currently have a very good health care plan covered by the government, for privacy issues you will have to use your imagination, its not medicare or anything like that. I have been waiting for an appointment for about 4 weeks now, I can't get anywhere with it. I'm not likely to die waiting on it, but I'm in constanct pain waiting for the system to work its way around. Its approved, its just "caught" up in the system the government created, not the doctors or the insurance companys...the goverment made the mess I'm dealing with, the government employees take blame for the problem and say they can't fix it until XYZ happen. Rules the government created.

    More control will not fix anything it will harms it. I could very easy pay out of pocket for this and be done with it tomorrow, which one is better for the nation and me? However, if I pay for it there are more problems this will create, silly huh? Yes more of this please, its the answer.

    People will end up dieing if you turn control of things over the goverment the red tape is just amazing.

  5. #21

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    [QUOTE=Not a Number;963383]Obviously you haven't done the slightest research at all on the subject. I don't know where you get the idea the reform bills will dictate your choice of doctors. Look at Medicare, that's a government run health insurance plan. How many doctors and hospitals do you know that don't take Medicare patients. Do you have a "private" insurance plan? Go to that companies website and look up what doctors, clinics and hospitals that accept your insurance plan. If you have an HMO plan your choices are even more limited. Sure you can go "out of network" and choose a doctor or hospital that doesn't take your plan. You pay more out of pocket and the expenses may not count towards your deductible

    How's that for "liberty to choose" to spend more while your insurance company continues to pocket your premium.

    How many choices do you have now if you have a pre-existing condition, no job and no insurance? County Hospitals? The emergancy room? Try picking your doctors there.

    And yet there is the clamor "for the same health plan that the Senate has". Which by the way is a government run insurance plan available to all federal employees including the military and their families. But government run health care is a bad thing. Yet people want it.

    How bad is it when seniors will find their prescription drug costs are cut in half, when unemployed people, people between the ages of 18-25 or 50-64 with or without pre-existing conditions can get affordable insurance?

    Besides the "single payer" government health plans were out of the bills almost from the beginning. Doh!

    The all time low has to be the other day when one of the Representatives from Georgia likens the "health care bill fight" to "The Great War of Yankee Aggression".[/QUa
    as I stated, I dont have too much info on it really
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  6. #22
    Capslock's Avatar
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    rattler,
    Nobody is holding out Canada's system as perfect, but as you point out, they are not in any way, shape, or form interested in switching to our crazy system. Some people wait for non-essential care in Canada - but that's usually pretty overblown. Not everyone has that experience.

    In any case, forget Canada. Let's do what the French do - their system is considered among the best. They have an inexpensive public plan that covers the basics and provides a decent level of coverage to all. Then they let you buy supplemental plans through private companies to offer a more deluxe coverage to those who can afford it. The result of this public/private hybrid is dramatically good. Everyone is covered (which saves money!), but not everyone is held to the lowest common level of care.

    For the life of me, though, I just can't believe or understand how people are so fooled into thinking what our private insurance industry does is OK. It's so demonstrably and palpably bad compared to the rest of the world that I wonder if people have ever traveled.

    I have a friend who's had a double lung transplant. She lost her job recently, and her COBRA is running out. Obviously she has high costs, with all the drugs she has to take to stay alive. She has literally no options. No insurer will cover her "pre-existing conditions" in a million years. She is screwed - first she will lose her life savings, then will go bankrupt. That is our system.
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  7. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiana Gardener View Post
    I don't think any branch of government should have that much power, no matter which side they're on. That's the reason the USA was founded, to get away from oppressive, all powerful rulers and governments. Once bills start passing that way, it will be a total free for all on the Hill and rules will be changed or thrown out all together to suit whomever screams the loudest. Then we'd all might as well be right back in late 17th through 18th century England being ruled by the crown.
    YAH!! that's why the 3 branches were founded, so if any single branch starts to miscalculate and say eh abuse power a little too tid the other 2 can come in and check em

    ---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    Not to mention the outright looting of the Treasury by the Federal Reserve Bank. We need to take back control of our money as well. Why did we give control of our most precious resource to a privately held company? (The Federal Reserve Bank). One that the American people do not even have the power to audit.
    I think i tried to explain this corruption here on TF before, but anyways yes the Federal Reserve system is indeed crippling the nation, why let a private (not government) owned system lend money to the US gov only to be payed back by the US gov at interest!! wowohoowhooo yeah sometin mischievous there indeed. The money supply is supposed to be in the full control of the free peoples and their representatives, eh now now who ever controls the money supply controls everything, it doen't mean just cuz u are the president elect or king on the throne u automatically control the empire, NO it the one who holds money econnomics who TRUELY DOES. And in the case of America the 1 that holds it is a "private" owned banking system its a nightmare

    ---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    No, they took over in 1910. 20 years later, we suffered through the great depression. Since then we have had a few recessions caused by cycles of inflation and deflation.

    The founding fathers warned us against doing this...

    A quote by Thomas Jefferson...

    "If the America people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

    My children wake up to a 20+ trillion dollar deficit. Many people's children wake up homeless.
    The wise men, and why do i get criticized at home by my friends when I try to explain them this wrong concept of banking and society so believe it or not they control EVERYTHING! without currency nothing at the current states will function, hey they affect my life!!!! and yours!
    L'imagination est la clé de la logique de la pensée, une plus grande vérité éternelle.
    Me

    Formerly Plantea

  8. #24
    dashman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    For the life of me, though, I just can't believe or understand how people are so fooled into thinking what our private insurance industry does is OK. It's so demonstrably and palpably bad compared to the rest of the world that I wonder if people have ever traveled.
    Don't get me wrong. I do not believe our healthcare system is the best. What I do believe is that the federal goverment has a finite set of responsibilities. Being an insurer to the public and even worse illegal-immigrants is not one of them.

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