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Is there any evidence that artificial fertilisers are detrimental to CPs?

Hi,

I'm sure that everyone here has either read or believes that fertilisers are harmful to carnivorous plants. It's often cited that plants developed the ability to catch prey as their natural environment was/is devoid of nutrients; however, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are intolerant of them. Every now and then there will be a post about adding Osmocote or similar to CP media. Does anyone have any evidence that adding such fertilisers has any detrimental effect? Alternatively, is there any research papers proving that artificial nutrients are detrimental?
 
I don't know about Dews and Pings and things cos I don't grow them much but I know that my Neps did very well being fed Grow More Urea Free orchid fertilizer basic (20-20-20 + trace minerals) and the bloom formula (10-30-30 + trace minerals). I would add 1/2 - 1 tea spoon of powder to each 5 gallons of R/O water and water all the plants with it: neps, orchids, succulents, etc. Come to think of it, there was a D. adlae that showed up and infested my N. hamata vines pot and it did great with the bi-weekly fertilizer with D. adlae growing out of every hole in the net pot even blooming. lol

I also fed each pitcher an appropriately sized cricket every week or so. I never used Osmocote or any other sorts of fertilizers so I can't say what they'd do but Urea Free Grow More is a gentle fertilizer (ebay has it). Just don't go overboard follow the directions or even use less than it says and of course experiment on something you can stand to loose before you try it on everything!

I will say one thing that was detrimental was using NAPA Floor Dry #8822 (expanded diatomaceous earth) in a 50-50 peat mix with Dews. It grows succulents like nothing else I know of but it wiped out my meager collection of six sundews in about 3 days. So avoid Floor Dry as a source of grit for your CPs.
 
I don't know about Dews and Pings and things cos I don't grow them much...
I regularly feed my couple of Mexican Pinguicula with hydroponic nutrients (Ionic Hydro Grow) with no sign of detrimental effects and one of them has been flowering for months.
 
i think the bottom point is whether the nutrients come from organic or inorganic sources. CPs can readily take in organic sources with much ease. inorganics that are chelated are probably easier for CPs to take up as well. inorganic sources alone usually involve salts which are detrimental. osmocote is also a time release fertilizer as well---maybe that has something to do with CP tolerance to it.

i have no idea what im talking about...im just trying to sound smart. :-/
 
I would imagine hydroponic fertilizers would be the same as Urea Free orchid ferts since hydro grows soilless in inert media and has no bacteria to break down the urea fertilizers.

IIRC what is supposed to be so "bad" about fertilizer salts is when they dry up they can crystallize on the roots and thereby inhibiting further water/nutrient uptake. But by using plenty of distilled or R/O water inbetween fertilizations should be enough to flush any excess salts away. My Neps would get probably 4-8 flushes of pure water inbetween each fertilizer flush.

Organic fertilizers/treatments (like fish emulsion) are OK for a greenhouse but they can stink and promote fungal growth enclosed in a terrarium. I do prefer the standardized inorganic salts myself.
 
It is my understanding that sarracenia - at least - is intolerant of fertilizers. Such additives will quickly kill off their roots - which are unaccostumed to large concentrations of salts and minerals - both of which are present in fertilizers - and once this happens they will quickly fall to rhizome rot. Having said that, there's no denying the results obtained from osmocote in young plants. The key is most likely moderation. CPs do require minerals - just not in the same proportion as other plants. A slow release, dilute fertilizer will do wonders for your plants - just don't over do it.
In corals, maximum cellular growth occurs at a temperature just below the maximum tolerable heat that would kill the cells. Same principle applies to CPs: You never know how much is too much until it's too late - so most people opt for the safe road: No fertilizer at all.
 
It is my understanding that sarracenia - at least - is intolerant of fertilizers.
I have Osmocote in small quantities in my media for psittacina and purpurea and both plants are doing fine
 
I have only used dilute orchid fertilizers (typically 30:10:10 at one quarter strength) with Nepenthes, Cephalotus, and Heliamphora -- all with noticeably good results, and have supplemented that with occasional feedings either of insects or fish food. The Sarracenia are constantly brimming over with prey and haven't required a thing.

Of course, any fertilizer can be detrimental to a plant if applied incorrectly . . .
 
I would imagine hydroponic fertilizers would be the same as Urea Free orchid ferts since hydro grows soilless in inert media and has no bacteria to break down the urea fertilizers.
Yes, hydroponic nutrients are urea free. They usually contain a large number of trace elements as these are not present in hydroponic inert media.
 
  • #10
http://www.bestcarnivorousplants.com/mineral_nutrition.htm

VII. High-nutrient conditions

Some CPs may reduce their growth and even die when grown in nutrient enriched soils (see Juniper et al., 1989, p. 134). Dionaea muscipula grew very poorly in a conventional clay-loam garden soil (Roberts and Oosting, 1958). The leathery leaves did not develop traps and flowering was greatly reduced. After 5 months, most plants were dead. Similarly, when grown in a fertilized greenhouse potting soil, roots of Dionaea were atrophied, no new roots formed, and plants died within 70 days. In another experiment, the growth of Dionaea in a sand culture with mineral nutrient solution was poor; plants declined in weight, and died after about 3 months, while the controls watered with distilled water grew much better. The insect- or protein-fed plants showed more vigorous growth than the controls. As follows Dionaea is very susceptible to higher soil nutrient level and its root growth is suppressed in heavier soils (cf. Adamec et al., 1992). Eleuterius and Jones (1969) studied the growth of Sarracenia alata in a southern Mississippi bog and found a growth decrease in fertilized bog soil (seasonal supply of 37.1 g N.m-2 and 5.9 g P.m-2; cf. Stewart and Nilsen, 1992; chapter VI.). Possible negative effects of nutrient-rich soils on the growth of Nepenthes were discussed by Juniper et al. (1989, p. 134).

These findings demonstrate that higher nutrient levels in soils may inhibit growth of some CPs (mainly root growth). Due to shortage of data, it is not clear whether this effect is confined only to some species or whether it is an extreme consequence of the above stated competition between root and leaf nutrient conditions (sensu Chandler and Anderson, 1976a) or of an unsuitable pH (cf. Rychnovská-Soudková, 1953, 1954). However, many CP species including Dionaea may grow vigorously in rather concentrated nutrient solutions (e.g. Small et al., 1977; Simola, 1978; Aldenius et al., 1983) and are generally able to tolerate these conditions. On the other hand, CPs growing in nutrient solutions in vitro lose some features of carnivory. For example, in-vitro grown D. capillaris formed non-functional tentacles, while Dionaea formed immobile leaf lobes (Adamec, unpubl.). Thus, the development of carnivory is partly blocked under high-nutrient conditions.

Nepenthes will stop growing pitchers if you fertilize them enough.
 
  • #11
http://www.bestcarnivorousplants.com/mineral_nutrition.htm



Nepenthes will stop growing pitchers if you fertilize them enough.
Thanks, Interesting. The first paragraph basically confirms that Dionaea does not grow well in mineral based soils but does not attribute nutrients to being the reason for failure. The second paragraph states 'Dionaea may grow vigorously in rather concentrated nutrient solutions'. I have been growing a Dionaea in hydroponics since last season in a nutrient solution of 0.75EC during active growth and the the plant grows well.
 
  • #13
Butch, those are basically the conclusions of the Adamec paper, however he cites lack of data in many cases. This is a 13 year old paper after all.

I've noticed unpublished studies cited in other papers. It's difficult to obtain copies of these without be acquainted with the author.

Let's see how your plants are doing a year or two down the road. Long term results on hydroponics is lacking.

Just on my own observation with Dionaea the plants I've grown in pure peat moss develop massive root systems - a mat forms on the bottom of the pot - vs those grown in the usual 50/50 sand/peat moss mix or even live Sphagnum. Yet very little difference in growth of the plant and rhizomes themselves. So substrate in itself may make a difference in root growth for this species. I've started using much less sand in my mixes from now on.
 
  • #14
Oh I totally agree, my main point is that it is not an either/or situation...but in most cases both are inter-related with nutrition from insects usually being the regulation variable. For optimum health, both variables must be met.

Adamec did a good follow up in 2002 for New Phytologist
"Leaf absorption of mineral nutrients in carnivorous plants
stimulates root nutrient uptake
"

Basically restating that root uptake was directly proportional to leaf/trap uptake...

Later in 2005, we have
The roots of carnivorous plants
Wolfram Adlassnig1, Marianne Peroutka1, Hans Lambers2 & Irene K. Lichtscheidl1,3
1Institute of Ecology and Conservation Biology, University of Vienna, Althanstrasse 14, 1090 Vienna,
Austria. 2School of Plant Biology, Faculty of Natural and Agricultural Sciences, The University of
Western Australia, Crawley WA 6009, Australia. 3Corresponding author*
Received 30 April 2004. Accepted in revised form 31 August 2004

"....Some carnivorous plants appear to have a
limited capacity for nutrient absorption from the
soil, and therefore depend on animals to a
greater extent: Utricularia gibba (Pringsheim and
Pringsheim, 1967) can survive on an inorganic
medium, but grows very slowly. Better growth
occurs, when beef extract, peptone, glucose and
acetate are added to the medium. The same is
the case with Dionaea muscipula on a nutrientrich
soil: without animals plants produce no new
roots, only few flowers, no fertile seeds, and die
(Roberts and Oosting, 1958). Therefore, in the
natural habitat of Dionea, only 8–25% of the
total N comes from the soil. The greatest
amounts are found in dense vegetation, where
the traps work less effectively (Schulze et al.,
2001). The closely related Aldrovanda vesiculosa
is able to survive without animal prey, but shows
only poor growth (Adamec, 2000).
The amount of nutrients obtained from either
prey or from the soil seems to vary substantially.
Sarracenia leucophylla can get 60 times more ions
from the prey than from the soil (Gibson,
1983b). Nepenthes mirabilis gets about 60% of its
N from insect prey, whereas in Cephalotus it is
only 30% (Schulze et al., 1997). In Drosera
rotundifolia about 50% of the total N is of animal
origin (Millett et al., 2003), and in D. hilaris
68% (Anderson and Midgley, 2003). The protocarnivorous
Roridula gorgonias, which needs
symbiotic hemipterans for digestion, even up to
70% of N comes from animals (Anderson and
Midgley, 2003).
For another group of plants, applied mineral
nutrients (i.e. fertilizers) can be fatal: Sarracenia
alata, for instance, grows on soil containing sufficient
concentrations of N, P and K; it is, however,
very sensitive to fertilizer additions, and
dies when growing in such nutrient-enriched
areas (Eleuterius and Jones, 1969).
Nutrition can also influence the morphology
of some carnivorous plants, and the size
and number of their traps. In some species of
Sarracenia (Ellison and Gotelli, 2002) and of Nepenthes
(Smythies, 1963) more, and more efficient
pitchers are produced on a nutrient-poor medium.
On a richer medium the leaf bases become
flattened and hence more suitable for photosynthesis,
whereas the pitchers are reduced.
Another interesting observation is that plants
may take up only some specific nutrients through
the roots, whereas others come through the
leaves from the prey. This is the case for some
Australian Drosera species that grow in habitats
subjected to fires. The soil in this habitat in general
is very poor, but enriched in K after a fire.
Drosera is thought to take up the K+ by its
roots, and the other nutrients from insects
(Dixon and Pate, 1978; Pate and Dixon, 1978),
but this effect has not been quantified. Nepenthes
pervillei sends its roots into rock cliffs where the
cyanobacterium Lyngbia (Oscillatoriaceae) grows.
Lyngbia fixes atmospheric dinitrogen, which is
suggested to be absorbed by the roots, whereas
other nutrients may come from animals that are
caught in the few functioning traps (Juniper
et al., 1989)."
 
  • #15
It is my understanding that sarracenia - at least - is intolerant of fertilizers. Such additives will quickly kill off their roots - which are unaccostumed to large concentrations of salts and minerals - both of which are present in fertilizers - and once this happens they will quickly fall to rhizome rot. Having said that, there's no denying the results obtained from osmocote in young plants. The key is most likely moderation. CPs do require minerals - just not in the same proportion as other plants. A slow release, dilute fertilizer will do wonders for your plants - just don't over do it.
In corals, maximum cellular growth occurs at a temperature just below the maximum tolerable heat that would kill the cells. Same principle applies to CPs: You never know how much is too much until it's too late - so most people opt for the safe road: No fertilizer at all.

Last year was the first time I used Osmocote on my Sarrs and they seemed to respond VERY favorably to it. As Brokken mentions above "the key is moderation". I only use 3 to 8 pellets per pot depending on the pot size but the rhizomes and roots really took off (especially the seedlings).
 
  • #16
Butch, those are basically the conclusions of the Adamec
Let's see how your plants are doing a year or two down the road. Long term results on hydroponics is lacking.
.
This is true; however, the plant has survived in a peat free media for a season with added nutrients.
 
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