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Thread: so much for "one man, one vote"

  1. #33

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    Dashman, In cumulative voting, supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them, so it fits the definition that you cite. "One man, one vote" also fits that definition. Democracy comes in different forms. By the way, before 1920 in the US, only men could vote. In certain other democracies, only land owners could vote. Fortunately, democracy evolves with changing times.

  2. #34
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    Except for the one vote part. LOL.

    True it does evolve. The ones you mentioned are good changes because they address the tyranny of evil men. What is being mentioned here seems to be the opposite, evolution of democracy by tyrannical men.

    I hope I am not offending anyone here. I am simply stating my opinions on the topic at hand. I value each of your opinions as well as my own and bear you no ill will. Even if I think you are dead wrong.
    Last edited by dashman; 06-18-2010 at 06:56 PM.

  3. #35
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    Wait Scott, so you're saying that a Bush appointed judge ruling that they were violating the Voting Rights Act is a progressive transgression? Using a system that's been used to elect the school board in Amarillo, Texas or the county commission in Chilton County, Ala., or the City Council in Peoria, Ill is hardly tyrannical. In many states it is MANDATED to use cumulative voting in corporate governance. For a hundred years it was how the Sate of Illinois elected their Representatives. it's used not to enforce a progressive or conservative agenda, but to ensure minorities don't always lose even when electing full commissions and boards that are supposed to represent the electorate. Remember, of the two Hispanics running here, one was Democrat and one was Republican.

    The notion that a system that better represents the voters is preferable is hardly a transgression anyway. It simply addresses the fact that Hispanics don't get elected in this district. Frankly, I find it a stretch of the Voting Rights Act, so I don't understand the Judge's decision in this case. But regardless, that's why he ruled the way he did. it's hardly progressive or conservative - it's simply the application of existing, well-established law. The Voting Rights Act has language ensuring that the electoral processes are equally accessible to minority voters. Is there a problem with that? Is that too "progressive"?

    dashman - You are not offending me in the least. I love a spirited political debate (obviously, lol!), and respect all participants as well. But I don't pull punches either - I know the posters here like Scottychaos and rattler and the rest can handle it.
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  4. #36
    dashman's Avatar
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    Understood Caps.

    I don't want you to hold back. Prove me wrong... Prove me wrong... LOL.

    EDIT:
    BTW, there are progressives on both sides of the aisle. They really are two shades of grey after all. Again reaffirming my point that there should be no sides of the aisle. There should only be the question. "What do the people think?"
    Last edited by dashman; 06-18-2010 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    There should only be the question. "What do the people think?"
    Cumulative voting answers that question better than "one man, one vote" because minorities are more likely to be represented in the result of the voting. After all, "the people" consists of minorities as well as the majority.

  6. #38
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    That is exactly the point. All demographics, races, creeds, colors, etc should be counted equally. No scheme should be derived to give any one group a more influential vote or thier voice louder than thier fellow man.

  7. #39
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    Originally Posted by dashman.
    There should only be the question. "What do the people think?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tropics View Post
    Cumulative voting answers that question better than "one man, one vote" because minorities are more likely to be represented in the result of the voting. After all, "the people" consists of minorities as well as the majority.
    it does NOT answer the question better..that is the exact problem with it..
    "what do the people think" is best answered with "one man, one vote" because whoever gets the most votes, wins..

    its so blatantly obvious that Cumulative voting is designed to give the people what they DONT want, and what the majority didnt vote for..thats the whole problem with it..its rigging the system to get the result that the *minority* wants..

    remember the uproar in 2000 when Bush won the election over Gore despite the fact that Gore had more popular votes? funny how liberals were in favor of "one man, one vote" then..when the concept favored their side..but they are against the concept when it favors the evil white people being elected, by the majority, over minorities..

    (same can be said for Republicans! they didnt care so much about "one man one vote" in 2000..but they like it now..)

    in 2000, Gore should have won..today, Cumulative voting should not exist..

    Scot

  8. #40
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    Those votes are counted equally. Everybody gets the same number of votes and each person's votes count as much as anyone else's votes.

    As for inequality, our national government already gives some voters more of a say. The ~17 million people in AK, DE, HI, ID, ME, MT, NH, NM, ND, RI, SD, VT, WV, and WY have 28 votes in the US Senate, while the 37 million in CA have only 2 votes, as do the 25 million in TX. As Scot pointed out, presidential elections are affected too, because the disparity in senate representation affects the electoral college.

    What the judge did in NY doesn't give anyone more votes than anyone else, it just provides more flexibility in how those votes are distributed. Giving each person just one vote would have accomplished even more, but that would be too radical for an at-large local council election in the US.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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