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Thread: gotta love beaurocracy.......

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    rattler's Avatar
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    gotta love beaurocracy.......

    M1 Garands and Carbines are semi-automatic and legal to own in all 50 states, there are tens of thousands of them already here....Garands CAN NOT under any circumstances use a high capacity magazine anyway, your choices are to load it as a single shot or use a 5 or 8 round clip, the bottom of the rifle is solid and can not accept a high capacity magazine, infact it will not feed without the special clips unless you use it as a single shot......

    the part i bolded is hilarious.....

    The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

    The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

    A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

    "The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

    "We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

    Gun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

    "Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

    But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

    "Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

    M1 carbines can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

    "Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

    "But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

    He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

    Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

    According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

    Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

    "It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

    Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

    Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

    The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

    In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.

    A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

    "M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

    Henigan disagrees.

    "They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

    The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.
    cervid serial killer
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    BigBella's Avatar
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    Typical mouth-breathing, reflexive -- think pithed frog -- governmental red tape. As recent events clearly illustrate, it seldom attracts the best and brightest . . .

    When diving for kelp sporophyl (reproductive blades) samples last year, we were busted by Fish and Game, for not possessing an invertebrate tag in addition to our scientific collecting permit. Never mind that we were collecting algae and nothing else that day; but I did call the officer an idiot. We were required to make a court appearance and -- much to our satisfaction and joy -- the judge chewed out the F&G warden, and explained elementary biology to him.

    Also, I was eligible for jury duty this week and the recorded phone instructions were also offered in Spanish; forget for a moment that a lack of English proficiency makes one ineligible as a juror . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    Also, I was eligible for jury duty this week and the recorded phone instructions were also offered in Spanish; forget for a moment that a lack of English proficiency makes one ineligible as a juror . . .
    This one I get, as annoying as it is.

    You are required by law to show up if summoned.

    THEN you get released for not having the qualifications.

    No sense if having to generate an arrest warrant on someone who doesn't show because they can't understand. The Bureau of jurors (whatever they're called) doesn't have a language code on their system. Perhaps they should, but they don't.
    17 Nash Rd.
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    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    This one I get, as annoying as it is.

    You are required by law to show up if summoned.

    THEN you get released for not having the qualifications.

    No sense if having to generate an arrest warrant on someone who doesn't show because they can't understand. The Bureau of jurors (whatever they're called) doesn't have a language code on their system. Perhaps they should, but they don't.
    But there are instructions on the actual summons that already mentions that ineligibility in Spanish . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    dashman's Avatar
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    Rattler,
    I was wondering when you would post this. My thought is that they are trying to ban them so as not to flood the market to where people can afford to buy these guns in bulk. And yes they are idiots, not to mention ignoring the law.


    Odd that the DOJ isn't going after these people who are clearly racist for not allowing non-English speaking persons to be part of a Jury. After all, if a non-english speaking person is a defendant. Can a jury of english speaking people be considered peers?

    I am being sarcastic here. There comes a time when political correctness and legal rhetoric must yield to common sense. That time has long since passed I think. We have become a society that suffers at the hands of those who whine the loudest and most often makes the least amount of sense. This goes for left and right in power, most of them anyway. Both define themselves as idiots by thier words and actions.
    Last edited by dashman; 09-03-2010 at 10:33 AM.

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    quogue's Avatar
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    Cool, maybe these'll end up in the CMP driving down current prices. Unless another WW II Cable TV Show or Movie comes out...

  7. #7
    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashman View Post
    Rattler,
    I am being sarcastic here. There comes a time when political correctness and legal rhetoric must yield to common sense. That time has long since passed I think. We have become a society that suffers at the hands of those who whine the loudest and most often makes the least amount of sense. This goes for left and right in power, most of them anyway. Both define themselves as idiots by thier words and actions.

    I agree . . .

    Take San Francisco, for example, flouting federal law, in terms of coddling illegal aliens and whatnot. SF -- a "sanctuary city" that thrives on low-to-nothing wages for the kitchen staffs in their four star restaurants.

    There's just no way in hell that I am dropping thirty bucks for a plate of scungilli prepared by some poor sap from Oaxaca -- smuggled in a fetal ball in the boot of a VW ( an actual guy in North Beach, I kid you not) . . .

    I lived in Mexico for two years and most everyone I knew there thought we gringos were gullible fools for our policies -- policies they wouldn't tolerate themselves . . .
    Last edited by BigBella; 09-03-2010 at 10:31 PM.
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  8. #8
    mr.smith's Avatar
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    um, i don't mean to attract controversy or make anyone angry(in case i somehow do) but i was under the impression the m1 garand is the rifle used by the Marine Corps honor guard, so wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous that the gov't does not allow us to buy a SEMI-AUTO rifle that is considered to be an example of american genius in times of savage and unforgiving war?
    They are in front of, behind us, to the left and right of us, and outnumber us 29:1. Those ******** can't get away this time!

    -General Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

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