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Thread: Cephalotus 'Eden Black' Seeds

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    mobile's Avatar
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    My understanding is that Cephalotus 'Eden Black' came from a cross between two other named Cephalotus and there were three seedlings, all of which looked different. Given this, is there not a good chance that seedlings produces from 'Eden Black' seeds will also look different to the parent?

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    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobile View Post
    My understanding is that Cephalotus 'Eden Black' came from a cross between two other named Cephalotus and there were three seedlings, all of which looked different. Given this, is there not a good chance that seedlings produces from 'Eden Black' seeds will also look different to the parent?
    Of course there is that chance, but given the traits of Eden Black, crossing it with itself would certainly give the seeds a much higher chance of being similar to the cultivar or at least impressive in some other manner, then the chance of a typical Cephalotus being crossed with itself.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

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    Time will tell, but I guess that we will have a long wait as any traits won't be evident until the seeds grow into mature plants.

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    Moderator Joseph Clemens's Avatar
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    Only validly registered cultivar names count as named cultivars for the creation of horticultural hybrids, and presently there are only two Cephalotus follicularis plants that are officially named cultivars; Cephalotus 'Hummer's Giant' and Cephalotus 'Eden Black'.

    So, even though Cephalotus 'Eden Black' may be derived from seed produced by crossing Cephalotus "vigorous clumping" with Cephalotus "Dudley Watts", which would seem to give it the qualifications to be derived from a hybrid crossing. Neither of these parents is actually a registered cultivar. So, as far as horticulture is concerned they are just two unnamed wild plants. And even Stephen Morley mentioned in his publication of Cephalotus 'Eden Black', that he wasn't certain of its actual parentage, either being from a cross of these two parents or possibly from self-pollinated seed. DNA testing could possibly illuminate the truth of this.

    However, since Stephen Morley did publish these possible parents, naming them and describing them in the same publication that described the cultivar, Cephalotus 'Eden Black', and in the same publication also included photographic standards for Cephalotus "Dudley Watts" and Cephalotus "Vigorous Clumping". Perhaps all that needs done is to submit them to the ICRA (Jan Schlauer) for registration as cultivars, then they might also become official registered cultivars. After that it might be valid to designate Cephalotus 'Eden Black' a selection from a hybrid (if DNA testing proved that to be the case). Of course, it wouldn't be an F1 hybrid as F1 hybrids are derived from highly inbred and homozygous parents whose offspring are generally also quite uniform. As Stephen Morley stated in his description of Cephalotus 'Eden Black', many seedlings were grown, two were initially selected, but only one persisted to become the plant we know today as Cephalotus 'Eden Black'.
    Joseph Clemens
    Tucson, Arizona, U S A

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobile View Post
    Time will tell, but I guess that we will have a long wait as any traits won't be evident until the seeds grow into mature plants.
    ..... that's if they germinate .... given the age of the seeds, the owner's experience level and their somewhat serendipitous nature ..... not a given...
    All the best,
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Clemens View Post
    As Stephen Morley stated in his description of Cephalotus 'Eden Black', many seedlings were grown, two were initially selected, but only one persisted to become the plant we know today as Cephalotus 'Eden Black'.
    There were three selected, one became 'Eden Black', another "Tank Ceph 2" and the third one died.

    Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24939895@N08/4601598031/

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    Moderator Joseph Clemens's Avatar
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    Thanks mobile,
    I was only going by what is written in the published cultivar description, I was not familiar with those additional details.

    "From the resultant seedlings I selected and kept two of the best, most vigorous plants. Both of these plants were unique, but unfortunately only one of the plants survived over the years…but what a plant!" Linked, here.

    Obviously the author has left out some details.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 01-22-2011 at 12:15 PM.
    Joseph Clemens
    Tucson, Arizona, U S A

  8. #32
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    It appears that Eden Black seeds have the potential to produce dark clones: http://www.cpphotofinder.com/cephalo...-son-5006.html

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