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Thread: Starting Bonsai Help

  1. #17
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesin-DS View Post
    Afaik what he does that is different, is he doesnt always has the left right left right branching pattern exactly according to the rules, stuff like holes and deadwood on dedicious trees is also not japanese.
    So its not so different, just small details.
    Overall his trees more resemble beautifull wild existing specimens, while the japanese are more non existing perfect trees imho.
    I think you think the "official rules" are far stricter than they are in reality!
    dead wood is very japanese..

    and yes, some of the traditional styles can be rather rigid.."formal upright" and all that..
    but the Japanese and Chinese traditionally also have cultivated very "natural" looking forms..that is nothing new at all..So I dont think he is really breaking the rules at all..
    he isnt doing anything that isnt traditionally done in the Orient..

    in fact,,I would say the more natural styles are more common, and much more "traditional" than the more rigid and less natural styles..
    the goal has always been to create a very natural looking tree in miniature..dead wood styles are quite revered, and have been around for centuries.
    they even have Japanese names..Jin and Shari.

    edit:
    (oh wait..you said "on decidious trees"..ok, I will grant you that..not common in the orient..I didnt catch that distinction..I see what you mean there..)

    Scot
    Last edited by scottychaos; 11-17-2010 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #18
    Taliesin-DS's Avatar
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    Dead wood on coniferous trees is very japanese, dead wood on dedicious trees is not.
    I must admit that im just a beginner, and that Walter Palls style isnt by japanese rules is mostly hearsay.
    Ive been around on different bonsai forums and often heard rumors of ppl following the japanese style very strictly not being happy with the more naturalistic style of others (maybe thats the "western" school of thought you were talking about ?)
    my growlist: http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...306#post976306
    My pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/taliesin-ds/

    <Exo> @Talie......You are the lord of all things blah....

  3. #19
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    D'oh, now I'm going to get the bug again too. And I just gave a bunch of maple seedlings away to friends who're reforesting their property. :/
    While not really traditional, Eucalyptus make good practice bonsai. They grow very quickly, so you can experiment with them and get informative results while you're still learning the required patience for more delicate trees. (Another nice feature - if you make a really bad mistake, they come back well from stumps. :P ) Just don't try to let them mature in the ground as some advise for other types of trees; many Eucalyptus can reach 20' or more in just a couple of years and are a pain to dig up. Use a burlap sack or the pot-in-ground method if you must.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  4. #20
    Taliesin-DS's Avatar
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    I grow some seedlings in pondbaskets, the ones that dry out often get really interesting roots.
    my growlist: http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...306#post976306
    My pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/taliesin-ds/

    <Exo> @Talie......You are the lord of all things blah....

  5. #21
    Lucky Greenhorn Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
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    I just learned something. I'll go "fix" my bonsai-to-be. No one ever told me to put it in the ground.

    I have a Japanese maple that I want to train, plus a little baobab (that I think can stay in it's pot), and a little dwarf Sitka spruce that grows slower'n the Alps. That one will topp off at three feet in about 30 years. Automatic bonsai!
    If you shake a rain stick, you get rain. I need a hamata stick.
    My WWWs

  6. #22
    Taliesin-DS's Avatar
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    boababs wont get the caracteristic shape until they're decades old
    my growlist: http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...306#post976306
    My pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/taliesin-ds/

    <Exo> @Talie......You are the lord of all things blah....

  7. #23
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesin-DS View Post
    Dead wood on coniferous trees is very japanese, dead wood on dedicious trees is not.
    I must admit that im just a beginner, and that Walter Palls style isnt by japanese rules is mostly hearsay.
    Ive been around on different bonsai forums and often heard rumors of ppl following the japanese style very strictly not being happy with the more naturalistic style of others (maybe thats the "western" school of thought you were talking about ?)
    hmmm..I dont know..
    I havent been on any bonsai forums in years..
    But I have been going to workshops, symposiums and bonsai shows hosted by:

    http://www.internationalbonsai.com/

    for almost 20 years..and I have never really heard anything about a real division away from Japanese styles..

    When I said "western school of thought" I didnt really have anything specific in mind..
    just something that is *not* the traditional Jaopanese styles I guess..but I dont really have any specifics of what that might mean..

    based on everything I have seen over the past 20 years, all the American bonsai are very much in the traditional Japanese tradition..lots of styles, lots of variation, from very formal to very informal..I dont think I have ever seen anything that is clearly *not* traditional japanese styles! perhaps your idea about "deadwood on decidious trees" could be such a departure..
    that could be something fairly new and more "western"..

    But if a clear "western' style is in fact developing..I really dont know anything about it!
    which is probably why I was confused about all of Walter Pall's trees..to me, they all look very traditional..He is a true artist without a doubt..but IMO, an artist very much in the Japanese tradition..im just not seeing any real departure..

    Scot

  8. #24
    Taliesin-DS's Avatar
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    Maybe its just europe then were stuff is changing.
    Or maybe its just ppl on the internet thinking its changing :P
    Im not rlly part of any bonsai community, i just read stuff and mess with some trees in my garden :P
    my growlist: http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...306#post976306
    My pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/taliesin-ds/

    <Exo> @Talie......You are the lord of all things blah....

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