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Thread: Health insurance - why bother?

  1. #33
    dashman's Avatar
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    They didn't cater to the repubs. They catered to the corporations. If anyone who reads the bill thinks otherwise, I would be interested in why they think so.

    SS is not an entitlement. It is a madoff style, ponzi investment scheme. You give me your money now and when you retire I will give you this much.... provided that I can get more people to sign up when it is your turn to get paid. That is the problem. Now all of the baby boomers are retiring and starting to collect.

    There will soon be more people getting paid than there are who are paying in. There are three ways the government can deal with this. First is taxes, second is reduction of benefits, third is by printing money and creating inflation. Right now, they are doing the third option. In other parts of the world, they are doing option #2 (Austerity), mainly because they no longer control thier money supply (the euro) and cannot do option #3.

  2. #34
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    it floors me that anyone thinks demos are for "the lil guy" anymore......as a small business owner and someone thats not had much his entire life when all is said and done the repubs have done me far more good than the demos.....those tax breaks they give "the rich" do help ppl like me that clear well under $200,000 a year for combined household income......the demos in many ways are bigger crooks than the repubs anymore and the repubs are far from angels.....
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  3. #35
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    the health insurance bill is 100% on the dems shoulders....
    Yes we all know this is how the voting went down but what people are forgetting is the way it was written, they were trying to lure Republicans to vote on it so changed all sorts of things back and forth. Remember Susan Snow (R) NY or whoever they were all gabbing about "We think she might vote with us so if we write it this way" then "now so and so democrat won't vote yes so they're gonna rewrite this part this way" then "John Bayner minority leader is holding a special session on this aspect of the health care bill" and I don't remember who or what else only a nut could remember it all but it was months of that back and forth and at the end the completely predicable outcome was a clear vote down party lines. So whatever the original health care bill was it might have been something good before all that congressional wheeling and dealing went down. I'm giving blame to both since they both hand a hand in messing it up to the point where all of them republicans and democrats both said "no I haven't read it look how big it is" before a vote ever took place.

    That's why it should have been a written directive phrased something like:
    "You get sick show up at the doctor and show your ID card as proof of citizenship and see the doctor."

    One sentence, no need for 1000 pages or months of deliberations. This is how they do it in the UK and Sweden where my two writers are located they think our medical system is totally ridiculous and stupid.

  4. #36
    dashman's Avatar
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    Good points swords. I stand corrected to an extent. However, I do believe the girth of the bill benifits corporations more than any other person or group of persons.

    My personal belief would be that going in and telling people what they can charge would be more beneficial than footing the bill. There is no transparency in healthcare whatsoever. No free market. You go to the list of doctors you have to choose from and then get a bill later.

    Perhaps even better would be to require prices to be clearly communicated to people prior to treatment. If free market were allowed to operate, then many costs might just go down.

    Then perhaps there wouldn't be so many ruffled feathers over helping those who clearly need help. I want to help those who cannot afford healthcare, I really do. But I also know I am personally strapped. I don't make 250K, not even close. But I do pay taxes and I can't afford another cent more. And I don't think we should ask those who make over 250K to foot the bill either. 250K a year is not wealthy in my book, not by a long shot. Just means you live in a slightly larger house and slightly more expensive car in most cases all with slightly larger mortgages and car payments. People have a knack for adjusting thier lifestyle to thier income levels in this society.
    Last edited by dashman; 11-24-2010 at 11:56 AM.

  5. #37
    rattler's Avatar
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    you do realize the personal and corporate tax rates in Sweden and the UK are significantly higher than ours to pay for the health care.....yes they may not pay out in premiums but they payout for it all the same....

    ---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

    here are some numbers.....

    corporate tax rates
    US: 15-35% federal 0-12% state
    UK: 21-28%
    Sweden: 26.3-30%

    personal tax rates:
    US: 0-35% federal 0-10.55% state
    UK: 0-50%
    Sweden: 28.89-59.09%

    payroll taxes(someof this offsets whats not paid in personal tax so it cant really be added as a straight line to the other two):
    US: 15.3%
    UK: 23.8%
    Sweden: 31.42%

    and this is all before sales taxes and the like.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  6. #38
    dashman's Avatar
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    This is why a tax hike for the wealthy is imparative for the dems. If they don't pass that, then they will have to further inflate the money supply come 2014. Oh, and a tax hike for the wealthy is just the first step. It will not be enough to cover everything.

  7. #39
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    Swords, you are absolutely correct, that's why single-payer insurance wasn't even considered in the Senate Bill. The original House Bill did not include a mandate. The Senate Bill did as a concession to the Republicans. Who sponsored the Senate Bill? Senators Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) and Robert F. Bennett (R-Utah). The committees that actually write Senate and House Bills are composed of members of both parties. If you don't know that then go back your high school class in US government. At least it was required when I was in high school. And anyone applying for US citizenship has to learn this. So 100% on the Dems?

    Swords, if your employers don't get better coverage plans maybe if the Republicans don't get rid of the exchanges you can shift to a better policy in 2014.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  8. #40
    rattler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a Number View Post
    Swords, you are absolutely correct, that's why single-payer insurance wasn't even considered in the Senate Bill. The original House Bill did not include a mandate. The Senate Bill did as a concession to the Republicans. Who sponsored the Senate Bill? Senators Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) and Robert F. Bennett (R-Utah). The committees that actually write Senate and House Bills are composed of members of both parties. If you don't know that then go back your high school class in US government. At least it was required when I was in high school. And anyone applying for US citizenship has to learn this. So 100% on the Dems?

    Swords, if your employers don't get better coverage plans maybe if the Republicans don't get rid of the exchanges you can shift to a better policy in 2014.
    and pay for it out of his taxes instead of out of his check.....notice Sweden doesnt even have a 0% tax bracket for federal taxes....last year over 50% of US residents either paid in nothing or got more than they paid in federal taxes back....that is going to change.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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