Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
You wouldn't know what such a person was doing to other people, no. But we don't monitor PMs...the only way we know what's going on is if people report them to us and say "Hey, I think this person is being greedy/a jerk." If we get reports from several people saying some jerk is demanding seeds, then it's clear to us what's going on and it's easy for us to make a call on how to handle it.
I hope you're making lolz of teh recent pest and not seriously calling Ms. Emily a "brother" o_o
Anyway, might as well throw in my view:
Whatever happened to "treating others as you wish to be treated"?
Why should good people have to get bent over and just take everything a troll wants to dish out because they have nothing else better to do? And why it it excusable for someone to go out of their way to misbehave without consequence? It's one thing when it's a kid and they don't know better, but I think free passes for that should be cut off after age 10 when by then one would've learned how to conduct themselves. To excuse bad behavior, especially INTENTIONALLY bad behavior is rather unjust and defeats the purpose of having any social guidelines at all.
I'm sorry, but this is a forum, a public forum, and it has rules. If someone can't handle the rules, they don't belong. If one can't handle social situations, then they shouldn't get involved in any in the first place. It's absolutely unfair to inflict bad people upon good people that are minding themselves, and making everyone else suffer, or forcing them to leave because they can't stand it...why for?
And then turn on people that have reached their limits and call them the jerks, that's just...beyond my logic. Because everyone here, we're all good people. We're all typically nice and patient with genuine new-to-the-hobby peeps that might have questions. But we are all human, and we all have our limits. Nothing is infinite, patience included. Just like water in a bottle, garbage in a landfill, and the number of pokes a sleeping bear can take from a sharp stick. Ignoring only works for so long, and doesn't work at all when it's a troll that knows he's getting under people's skin, and persists until capacity for torment is reached. It is at that point, where I feel it's natural to defend/stand up for yourself, and whatever else that is yours that is at stake (i.e., this forum). Because I think there's two reactions in nature (and in humans, as we're part of nature) to something bad: run away, or try to kill it. Personally, I'm aware I have a short fuse and I have hard time not trying to obliterate whatever/whoever is giving me a headache Sorry. It is a serious fault of mine, and one I'm trying to work on. But...I'm not the only person like that. Or maybe I am, and everyone else in the "lynch mob" is just standing up for themselves and what's theirs (this forum) even though it's a senseless and futile fight. I see it as a congregation of people in agreement that are making a public outcry, which can occur between the first click of the report button and the final bringing down of the banhammer. So bravo to anyone who has the restraint to ignore blatant insults and stupidity until it's rectified.
I suppose ideally all those people would just click the "report this post/person" button quietly and walk away in the meantime, but that's a little unfair and unrealistic, because:
1- No one likes taking a punch without taking a swing back. Or there's only so much abuse they can take before they defend themselves.
2- In the real world, all bets are off on people being nice when they're faced with blantant..erm...rudeness. It goes back to the threshold of patience, and in today's "instant satisfaction" society, people don't bother with tolerance if they can see it'll be of no good.
3- It's just garbage that the established members have to walk away from a situation that shouldn't occur in the first place. That is just sad, and wholly not right when it happens.
I'm not saying I support the stupid fights, nor am I proud of the ones I've gotten involved with or the the n00b stage I had. Emily is certainly right, it's not just a peaceful, easy way of settling things, but it is the rules, and EVERYONE should follow them. I'm just trying to explain my perception on "what really goes on". Please don't hate me :<
I'd have to say as a noob, and not a kid noob, this place is interesting. I can def tell there are several different age groups. I like the threads and pics though.
Liz, in response to your observations...I really do understand why you guys get frustrated. Trust me, I get frustrated too!!
We don't take action on individuals on a whim. We don't just ban people because we don't like them. We give people warnings (three strikes), we look at evidence, and we discuss appropriate courses of action.
These things take time. Sometimes it may seem on the surface that nothing's going on, but behind the scenes we are working to resolve the problem -- whether that means stuffing the rules down their throat until they GET IT, or deciding whether to give them the hammer.
All we're asking is that you guys let us do our job. Again, often times if a bunch of people start ragging on somebody, it just makes them defensive, which escalates things and makes the situation even more difficult for us.
Yeah, I'm sure it's not an easy job for you guys, especially when there's someone so blatantly wrong and you still have to follow the process and be all fair and diplomatic and such. When TF crashed for a few hours the other day, I, and a few other people I have outside-of-TF contact with suspected it was down to uh..."mop up all the vomit" as you said. Turns out that wasn't the case, but it was rectified all the same that night which worked out nicely.
And I am fully understanding of the mods needs- that's why I closed with what I did about liking the rules which are honestly the most ideal and least-time-consuming method of dealing with unhappiness
It's why I'm really working on my vociferous "I HIGHLY DESIRE TO SEND YOU TO THE SUN" reflex, and from here on out, I will definitely eye the report button before I look at the reply button. I think a beneficial guideline would be "If it's not worth reporting, it's not worth replying"...that's the motto I've adopted for myself from here on out. I'm not perfect though, and end up taking the bait if I get too angry, but I'm sincerely not going to be as whimsy with my aggression as I have in the past.
I think getting this out is really a good thing...everyone can become a little more understanding of the opposing sides, and most importantly, gain insight and appreciation for the mods and their workings and atleast know how to appropriately handle negative situations to make life here easier for everyone.
I've considered what _ReApEr said towards the end of his post and absolutely agree. We all need to exercise our patience as well. That we have our limits, especially in frustrating situations, isn't a get out jail free card to not even try, either. We need to *try* to be patient while the mods do their work, perhaps knowing they're investigating an issue would help extend patience? I think that is a fair compromise: We try our best to be patient and comply as the mods need from us, and they do the best they can to resolve an issue in a timely fashion As he said "Yes, I think we should all practice discretion. I do not, however, think we should hold every single person here to the same standard. If a person does their best to maintain their cool and they slip up once in a while, can any more really be fairly asked of them? I, for one, don't think so." What I italicized is important to me: it's bound to happen. Despite this, no one is gonna be magically perfect or infinitely patient, so patience, in a way, will be needed for those of us that have to "grin and bear it", as well. The biggest thing, is coming to a happy resolution; a meeting in the middle to make everyone understanding and a fair compromise so everyone here is happier overall: More patience, and less stupid fights (although I'm quite certain the mods would like no more stupid fights ever )
Last edited by lizasaur; 01-07-2011 at 01:40 AM.
I'm gonna say I agree with both sides, but have a definite lean and I think Liz made a perfect argument for that lean. People's "get out of jail free cards" definitely run out somewhere around age 10, maybe a little older. And I think that's why almost every forum I've ever signed up on has you agree that you are at least 13 years old to even register. Granted, I don't think it's even remotely fair to set a specified age a person must be to qualify as a "good" member of the community (one of the many things I like about this forum; as far as I remember, I didn't have to agree that I was 13 years or older). Often times, I joke about it, in fact. I say, "13 years or older? Psh, it should be an IQ of 13 or over..." Indeed, there are many people that don't meet the 13 year mark that magically makes them acceptable to the vast majority of boards out there and yet, somehow, by some crazy voodoo, they are amazing members of the community, constantly contributing to the community. And therein lies my argument. If one has nothing to contribute, one should simply not partake. It is at that point that one is nothing more than a burden on the community.
But hey, that's just me.
As far as people losing their cool: it happens. All of us are human. I try, really hard, to stay out of drama and keep my $.02 to myself, but I sometimes simply cannot help it. [A recent plague on the community, brother] was a great example of that. I refrained from ever even communicating with the guy for quite a while. When said person decided to attempt to undermine the sheer awesomeness of this community? For me, it came down to standing up for that community. I was not going to stand by and let some loser trash the integrity of this community. The community has been ridiculously awesome to me, largely without even knowing me yet, and I felt I owed it to the community to say something, anything. So, did I? You better freakin' believe I did. I lost my cool, yes. Do I regret it? Not a chance. Would I do it again? Without a second thought.
On the other hand, yes, I think we all should practice a little discretion. However, I don't think any of us here go on about our business with zero discretion. We all have different fuses, some of us can take more than others. And age is irrelevant in that. I hear way too many stories of people's parents beating them when they were kids and parents getting out the belt every time their kid "talked back" to believe that even for a second. Again, all of us are human beings. We have been for thousands of years and, for the most part, we really have not changed. And if we have, I guarantee you it hasn't been in the last one, two, or even three generations. Change simply does not happen that fast. Yes, I think we should all practice discretion. I do not, however, think we should hold every single person here to the same standard. If a person does their best to maintain their cool and they slip up once in a while, can any more really be fairly asked of them? I, for one, don't think so.
EDIT: I want to add that I do think we all need to practice some patience as well. Yes, we live in an instant gratification society. Civility, however, is not an instantaneous process. I, personally, believe the system the leaders of this board have in place for deciding who gets a second chance and who gets the hammer, among other decisions, is not only effective but imperative. Regardless of whether or not it takes a few days. Administrators and moderators can be notified of something awry today and it might be a few days before we see any results. That, I believe, is the price we all pay for fairness and civility. Patience is a virtue, right?
i did some intense reading here in the past few days... most reading ive done in a while to say the least. haha.
in relation to recent unfortunate events... its always one of a few things that start sending a discussion seriously downhill...
- a question is asked. advice is given. advice is refused. something about some peoples nature makes them think that they need help. they get it but to make themselves not feel... insubordinate. totally reject the advice and continue on their merry way. why ask in the first place.
- the name game has always been a problem on any of the CP forums. you get a special plant and it ends up being something... not AS special (granted.. i find all plants pretty darn special). showing off your plant, someone with more "experience" says said plant is not what it seems to be. the claim is also backed up by other members. some people dont want to believe they have been scammed and try to find every method to prove wrong. it still is what it is. if a cultivar grown in correct conditions doesnt match the cultivar description.... you dont have it.
i want to say a "problem" on this forum is a lack of maturity some people have. mainly newbies. NOTE: this isnt a stab at ANY newbie and im NOT saying that all are like this..
the starter of those threads obviously wanted to start drama and press our buttons. if he was indeed scammed... that sucks... but there was no reason for either party to take defense to such an extreme as to turn defense into offense.
my verdict? both sides are equally to blame i think. both rose to levels of immaturity.
a lot of growing up needs to be done with everyone. veterans and newbies... with the exception of a select few.
EDIT: reaper got me. wow. i really spent 39mins typing that?
Everything is explainable. The seemingly unexplainable is but a result of our insufficient knowledge.- Hans Brewer
This thread would have been more useful earlier in the week or late last week I think. Also, by posting this thread, and the replies contained herein, you're doing the same exact thing that you're unhappy about. I thought things were dying down and we had all finally moved past this..