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Yet another RO unit thread

  • #81
From the same site, different page:

"Although the pump controls the unit completely and does not need a shut-off valve to shut down the unit, some prefer performance with a shutoff valve. There are special "90% shutoff valves" on the market sold to work with the permeate pump. It shuts the unit down when tank pressure reaches 90% of the inlet pressure. We haven't yet found a "90% shutoff valve" that we recommend. You can run the unit with any standard shutoff valve and it will improve the unit's efficiency and the quality of the product water, but you will still have only about 60% of your input pressure in the storage tank."


Ohhhh boyyyyy. So "By far, the best installation involves taking your RO unit’s auto shutoff device completely out of the system and allowing the permeate pump to shut the unit off when the tank is full. That way, you’ll get full line pressure into the tank." Yet it's more efficient to have a shutoff valve, according to the above quote. So how does that make NOT having one "by far, the best installation"? Ughh.
 
  • #83
Haha! I think I got it!

Now to find my teflon tape and test run it...
 
  • #84
skip the first few threads and wrap CCW ;-)

but you already know that :)
 
  • #85
Yar, thank ya. ^.^

---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 PM ----------

Oh boy, I think I'm out. Gotta run to HD tonight...

The anticipation! Agh!
 
  • #86
tee the pressure gauge at the inlet so you can verify inlet pressure doesnt drop excessively
Deadhead pressure measurements are almost worthless

then once its up and running check brine rate (with bladder tank valve closed off)
 
  • #87
Oh yeah, the guage. Are the T and a gauge something I can pick up at Home Depot, do you know?
 
  • #88
ummm dont have HD but at Lowe's yes, but since you dont have the gauge already dont worry about it just yet unless you want to


it will be required to do any troubleshooting though.... just a heads up
 
  • #89
Well, went to HD and they had the T but not the gauge. I'll probably get one on there before I leave, if possible. I'd like as much troubleshooting capability as possible while I'm gone so I might be able to figure it out while away. I can run to Lowe's to find one. Is this what I'm after?

In other news: We have water! The pump isn't so bad, you guys made it seem like it was going to sound like a lawn mower under my sink, hahaha. It kinda sounds like a miniature race care revving its engine. I assume I'm not to expect a normal brine rate and TDS readings right off the bat? I am letting it run an hour to clear out any carbon dust, etc. Right when it started giving me permeate, I checked TDS on permeate, brine, and tap. Brine was about 60, tap about 50, and permeate about 40. After 10 minutes, permeate dropped to 30. Now, about half an hour after starting, it's at 18. So I'm assuming it's just working things out while it purges air and carbon dust and stuff. Oh, when I first started, brine rate was about 2.5:1. Haven't checked it since the very beginning, I'll go do that...

EDIT: Brine rate dropped to about 2:1. o_O Could I have a pretty efficient brine rate because I'm starting at 50ppm tap?
 
  • #90
The PP should "pulse" or "thump" more then rev

thump... whizzzzzz.....silence.... thump.... whizzzz.....silence.... etc LOLOLOL, if that makes any sense

with the bladder tank valve closed the permeate output should also pulse

interesting.....
your permeate TDS should drop to zero very quickly

are you checking brine rate with the valve to the bladder tank closed? (it should be closed for the test)
2:1 is kind of low...... would seem like possible excessive restriction to the waste water output from the membrane (maybe just as result of the flow restrictor size the vendor chose)

does the unit shut down once the bladder tank is full?
 
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  • #91
LOL, yeah, that's what the pump sounds like.

The bladder tank is closed, yes. I haven't even opened the tank yet, so I don't know if it shuts off when the tank is full, but it shuts off after a few pulses when the spigot is connected and it's closed. So I assume it'd shut off when the tank is full.

Brine rate is slightly higher, like 2.2:1 now. Kinda weird... And TDS is still at 15ppm. Good enough for plants, but not good enough to satisfy me. Could it be a cheap membrane or carbon block / GAC filter? They didn't switch the GAC out for a second block, although they said they would...
 
  • #92
is this 15ppm directly out of the membrane or once it passes through the final carbon filter etc etc...

most membranes should be +90% efficient, check the tds going into the membrane (directly) and the tds coming out(directly) there should be a +90% reduction in TDS.... this is the ultimate test to determine when to change membrane
(assuming pressure at membrane inlet is sufficient, low pressure and low temp water has a major effect on membrane performance.... so real world might be as low as 80-85%)

could be just a little trash being a new system, i wouldnt get too worried....

I sorta like the PP sound, its hard to describe LOL

---------- Post added at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------

and yes that is the gauge

---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

gone to bed, ill check on ya in the morning...
 
  • #93
av8tor are you available as a digital encyclopedia i can carry around to troubleshoot, oh idk...the world?:hail:

a real question though, how much space does this entire setup take? I want to try and cram it under my bathroom sink if possible
 
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  • #94
Here's what my permeate pump is sounding like. Sound right to you? (Will probably need to turn volume up a bit)

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t-IogE51xWc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

@pik: I agree, he should definitely digitize himself, haha. And it takes up a pretty darn good chunk of space. The unit itself is WAY bigger than I imagined (I don't know why, but I always assumed the unit was maybe a foot across; it's not, LOL). To have everything spread out nice and comfortable, with my particular unit at least, I'd say about 24 horizontal inches and 20-24 vertical inches is probably what you want, to allow room for the hoses to not get all kinked up. Probably about 10 inches out from the wall, and the tank depends on how big you go obviously, but mine is about 14 inches tall and about 9 inches in diameter. All (pretty close) estimations.

I measured the TDS directly before and after the membrane, 57 and 8 respectively. I'm starting to wonder, though, if my TDS meter just isn't properly calibrated. I've never seen it below 8, even when I measure the water from the Glacier bulk water at the store which is supposedly double RO filtered. I'll get some distilled from the store tomorrow and test that, should definitely give me <8 and, if not, I can probably safely assume my meter's not calibrated properly. Interesting, though, that either the DI or carbon post filter is raising the TDS back up, regardless of whether or not it's calibrated correctly.

I hooked everything up and stuck it all under the sink, bladder tank open and spigot connected and everything. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully it shuts itself down pretty soon.
 
  • #95
Hmmmm I guess so but it is cycling faster then mine does.... maybe they have changed the pump since i got mine,

good idea to check your tds meter, and might be time to get the pressure gauge..... 57 to 8 isnt very good IMHO, my gut tells me we got something wrong somewhere.

could you draw out a schematic of how yours is all connected, including the location of the flow restrictor, asov, PP, etc etc etc, including the "polarity" of all the in's and out's

Im confident you have it all connected correctly, but it would be nice to remove any trace of doubt.... and if we have to troubleshoot any, then we can both be on the same "map"
 
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  • #96
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBWTy3GIBxE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


ummmm what accent?

???
 
  • #97
Av8tor1 said:
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBWTy3GIBxE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


ummmm what accent?

???
Click to expand...

SHAZAAM! :-))


BTW..is that a sword you are using to point stuff out there? :0o:
 
  • #98
Uncle Ken? Is that you? :lol:

Awesome video butch! Thanks for taking the time to explain!
 
  • #99
Butch, you are amazing. One couldn't ask for a simpler explanation of it all.

And... more bad news. There was a really slow leak that I could not locate for the life of me for like three hours. When I eventually discovered exactly where it was coming from, I was... errr... pissed. The cap to the DI canister has a very tiny fracture in it - the same place the tee splitter was broken off at upon arrival. Whatever caused the tee to break must also have put enough pressure on the plastic of the canister's lid to fracture it. Grrrrrr. The good news is that they supposedly shipped me a new one today. If I'm lucky, perhaps I'll have it before I leave this weekend. If not... well... Ugh. I can just skip the DI stage and still get water clean enough for my plants, right? I've already bypassed that stage (now goes right to the tank and/or carbon post filter after the ASOV, which is after the PP, which is after the membrane... LOL), but I haven't run it for fear I might break something, but that's perfectly fine, isn't it? Just wanted to double check before running it.

I'll go work on that diagram for you. Be warned, though, it may be quite crude. XD

Oh, and I'll pick up a gauge today. Probably some more tees and ball valves, too, to make maintenance a little easier.

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

I hope this is sufficient, LOL.

rodid.jpg
 
  • #100
Diagram looks good.... and yeah, no issues with bypassing the DI

one good thing, your understanding of the process will be truly in-depth LOL
 
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