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Thread: The National Debt: A Cheery Subject . . .

  1. #17
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    America, oh America.


    How proud I am to be one of you.


    What have we become?
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    America, oh America.


    How proud I am to be one of you.


    What have we become?

    "What have we become?" A few Kalamata olives short of Greece . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    If only Americans weren't too fat and lazy to get out and riot....

  4. #20
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBella View Post
    "What have we become?" A few Kalamata olives short of Greece . . .
    I know what you meant, but I think you meant to say Rome.

    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    If only Americans weren't too fat and lazy to get out and riot....
    It'll sure be interesting once the Coke and Pepsi supply finally runs dry...
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  5. #21
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  6. #22
    dashman's Avatar
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    I was wondering when something political was going to be posted... Been a while. LOL

    Here it goes...

    I think we should just RAISE TAXES and start paying off our debt...keep everything the way it is but RAISE TAXES. Once citizens see the real costs of all the services they're getting, let Congress trim off things that the public doesn't want to pay for. This way we don't get further in debt, start paying it off, and we take a more realistic look at what government should and should not do.
    Therein lies the problem. I don't recall exact numbers, but every man, woman, and child's "fair share" is around
    50000. A staggering amount, but when you take into account that children, elderly, low-income, etc do not pay taxes at all and you divy the debt up to just taxpayers, the number is more like 400000 per household of people who actually have to pay tax.

    So you see if they were to flat out raise taxes by 100% and everybody pay double it would still take a considerable amount of time to pay down the debt (100 years or more).

    Now this is not to mention all of the existing programs that we are obliged to continue like Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, etc. So it will take us the next 100 years to pay off existing debt all the while we continue to rack up current obligations in the red.

    The time to get out of debt under normal circumstances has came and gone. Everyone on Capital Hill knows this, they just don't want you to. There are ways to pay back the debt, which is most likely what will happen as it is what has been done in previous Central Bank run countries thoughout the past. It is called monetization of the debt. Which I will explain later.

    Monetization of the debt has occured many times in the past in other countries. Paying back the debt has occured zero times (to my knowledge).

    just way too many things going on, national debt caused by synergistic effects--raising taxes against the middle/lower class, entitlement/pension programs, legal/illegal outsourcing, etc etc etc....gotta address multiple problems and not go out guns ablazing against one issue and make it sound as it is sole culprit for the crisis (which i bet they're going to do, just to get the people off their back)
    Order through chaos. Always keep them guessing.
    And on a side note, I watched this ridiculous conspiracy video pretty much acting like a marketing ploy, HOWEVER, some of the things it touches on are kinda sorta true, and it provides some quite interesting history on us defaulting and the world moving away from the dollar being the world's currency...If anyone's interested....
    I would not label this consiracy theory. If you know current events, you will know that many nations are lobbying heavily to uproot the US Dollar as the worlds reserve currency. This has happened before with the old reserve currency, the British Sterling. And under similar circumstances. I urge you to take a look at what happened during that time in British History to get a glimps of what can and will happen here if the dollar is ever removed as the worlds reserve currency. The impact here will be far more severe I believe due to the large deficit.

    This guy is simply reading the writing on the wall and acting accordingly. Obviously he is trying to make a buck by selling his investment strategies, but it is hardly consiracy theory. I think the word "Consiracy Theory" is thrown around more often than not when someone challenges the status quo and it is thrown out by those who are charged with maintaining the status quo. I tend to listen to these so called "nut jobs" because although I may not agree with everything they say, they are always questioning what is attempting to be shoved down our throat.


    My personal belief is this whole "crisis" was manufactured. Why 14 trillion and not 10 trillion, or 5 trilltion, or even 25 Trillion for that matter. It's a primer for what's coming. Desensitization therapy, so to speak.

    It's no secret I am a big fan of Ron Paul, I think he is the most accurate of what is coming if things are left to run their course. The debt will have to be monetized at some point. Under Central Banking and Deficit Spending (aka keynesian economics) this is an eventuality. This will be especially true if we lose our reserve currency status because debts will begin to be called in. Once monetization happens, the 'ol US of A will become a 2nd maybe even 3rd world country overnight. It will make dollars worthless more or less. A big reason why those conspiracy theorists are buying up silver and gold.

    Funny that others call people buying gold and silver "conspiracy theorist" when they are presently in the same company of Central Banks, China, billionaires, and hedge fund managers.

    Obviously selling ones house and car to buy up useless metal is stupid, but a wise man never puts all of his eggs in one basket. Are you really diversified if all of your investments are in US Dollars? What is to protect you from US politicians in that scenario? BTW, have you noticed that China has limited the amount of money a person can exchange to Yuan? Billionaires and Banks are still getting as much as they can even while it is still pegged to the dollar. What is it they know that you do not I wonder.

    That's my thought on the subject anyways.

    ---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    I myself have outgrown the partisan finger pointing. They are both at fault.

    Reminds me of a chain email I received recently. I normally don't even read chain emails, but this one was an article from a retiring journalist which puts things in perspective a little...

    545 vs. 300,000,000 People
    -By Charlie Reese

    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and
    then campaign against them.

    Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
    against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

    Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and
    high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

    You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

    You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on
    appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

    You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

    You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

    You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme
    Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are
    directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the
    domestic problems that plague this country.

    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem
    was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its
    Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally
    chartered, but private, central bank.

    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.
    They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator,
    a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't
    care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The
    politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the
    lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine
    how he votes.

    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that
    what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con
    regardless of party.

    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive
    amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker,
    who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The
    President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to
    accept it.

    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
    responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and
    approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House now?
    He is the leader of the majority party.. He and fellow House members,
    not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President
    vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace
    545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence
    and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is
    not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the
    plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal
    government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to
    exist.

    If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

    If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

    If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want
    them in Iraq and Afghanistan ...

    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement
    plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

    There are no insoluble government problems.

    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they
    hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and
    advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to
    regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let
    them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical
    forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them
    from doing what they take an oath to do.

    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

    They, and they alone, have the power.

    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are
    their bosses.

    Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees...

    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.
    Last edited by dashman; 08-03-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #23
    GregNY's Avatar
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    Nice thoughts dash

    And nice interpretation. I am there with you in that labels are put on things that challenge popular or accepted belief. Although extreme, that stuff really did happen in those countries....as you mentioned. Scary for me to think how cant what happened to the British happen to us with that situation in front of us.
    Last edited by GregNY; 08-03-2011 at 12:19 PM.

  8. #24
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Really nice chain email.

    Of course it was kind of like preaching to choir for me, but good to read over again.

    The two party system has made a mockery and a shame out of what was once a great democracy.
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