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What's So Great About "Pure Species"?

jimscott

Tropical Fish Enthusiast
...and why are hybrids / crosses considered inferior? These are crosses and I think they are beautiful:

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S. 'Dana's Delight'

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P. gypsicola x kohres

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S. 'Fledgeling'

002-7.jpg
S. 'Leah Wilkerson'

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S. 'Leah Wilkerson'

005-5.jpg
S. 'Hurricane Creek White'

004-7.jpg
S. 'Schnell's Ghost'

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D. pulchella x occidentalis

100_9893.jpg
D. omissa x pulchella

100_9641.jpg
P. 'sethos'

100_9559.jpg
P. 'John Rizzi'
 
I think its a preference thing. I prefer hybrids. I like purpurea and flava hybrids the most. Its just something about the uniqueness of a hybrid that attracts me to them.
 
Hybrids have to come from somewhere ;)
 
ooooo....you threw out the bait, and you knew i would bite. :awesome:

hahaha lol. from a cultivation standpoint, yes, i would agree very much that it is a matter of preference. if you want robust, hardy plants with extra color and pazazz, for sure hybrids are the way to go.

from a conservation standpoint is where i begin to give priority more to species. however, this really depends on the frequency and feasibility of obtaining seed. in the case of sarracenia, flowers reliably come up every year and are monecious, so the event to create pure species seed is so frequent, i dont mind hybridizing these plants at all. however, if you contrast that with nepenthes, which have an unknown flowering frequency and are dioecious, the event to create pure species is much rarer to come across. so, in my opinion, priority to make species seed holds higher than making hybrids and should be sought after before choosing to make hybrids. this is good in the long run, as it will ensure redundancies and prevent extra pressure on existing wild populations. (how many clone lines of nepenthes do we know of that have been discontinued or lost?)

of course, if you happen to have two nepenthes in flower which happen to be complimentary, different species, and cant find their same species counterparts, it would make sense to cross them and make seed.

-ok. end my little shpeel.

i really like the dana's delight. and Leah's flowering, during this time of the year? :scratch: figured the cold would have killed the flowers by now.
 
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Everyone has their own fetish.
 
I didn't know there was a stigma against carnivorous plant hybrids like there is in other hobbies (cichlids, snakes, etc). I personally don't have a problem with hybrids as long as they are labeled as such... For example, someone selling a plant that was 75% Sarracenia minor and 25% S. alata as pure S. minor would be extremely poor taste, even if the plant looked identical to pure S. minor. But as long as they are labeled correctly, I see no problem, especially since even complex Sarracenia hybrids occur naturally in the wild. Many of the most beautiful sarrs I've seen have been hybrids. Here's one of my own I'm pretty fond of - Sarracenia 'Lamentations' × ([flava maxima × leucophylla] × minor). I love the combination of the magenta with areolae on top and pinstripes on the bottom, I can't wait to see when it puts out some real adult pitchers.



I still love pure species, and in fact my S. alata "black tube" is probably the plant I'm most anxious to see come springtime.
 
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@Natalie: what you said probably does have a grain of truth...i come from a tropical fish background, very fond of cichlids, so im sure my biases may have originated from there.
 
Thats beautiful Natalie:).
 
*steals Natalie's gorgeous sarr* My preeeeecioussssss!

Personally I prefer the look of many hybrids also just from an aesthetic standpoint but when the day comes that I want to try creating hybrids for myself I would like to start with some pure species. It's like a fresh paint pallete!
JennB
 
  • #10
from a conservation standpoint is where i begin to give priority more to species.
One of the big issues is that it's a one-way street. If I have pure species, I can always make hybrids. The reverse is not true.

This simple concept imperils stands of native plants. Some 'genius' improved a stand of S. alata in Texas by adding some S. leucophylla. After a number of years, the backcrosses have become not obvious & even if people try to clean out the invaders, it's not easy (and there's also the masses of ungerminated seed...).

In cultivation, any plant not capable of selfing is potentially at risk, especially those species that are not easily refreshed from the wild. Petiolaris dews & Nepenthes are two quick examples of this. How often does one find species seed from either that has been generated from cultivated plants?
 
  • #11
I don't particularly mind Sarracenia or Nepenthes hybrids but Drosera hybrids hold no appeal for me whatsoever. ??? I don't really know why.
 
  • #12
In cultivation, any plant not capable of selfing is potentially at risk, especially those species that are not easily refreshed from the wild. Petiolaris dews & Nepenthes are two quick examples of this. How often does one find species seed from either that has been generated from cultivated plants?

Dunno. Looks like N. ventricosa might do this for me. Last flower stalk is largely pollinated by something that wasn't me as it happened while I was on vacation in Oregon. And I dropped a pile of the one that I harvested when I dropped the flower stalk with all the seeds into the pot of a neighboring plant......:-))
 
  • #13
There's something about pure species, they seem more individualistic and unique in some ways than hybrids. But that being said, I do love many hybrids and they open up the pathway for the creation of many different and new exciting blends of traits.

For instance -

This is a cool plant, (S. psittacina x rubra)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2491644828_0dc5f586be.jpg

But it's not nearly as specialized or unique as S. psittacina.

http://www.fischermans-antik.de/ShowTemplate-Dateien/Eigene Bilder Fleischis/CK28/80.JPG

Here is a prime example of what I mean -

N. bicalcarata x northiana, giant, awesome cool plant.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l159/ep1_03/bicxnor.jpg

But I do not think it can compare to either:

http://captiveexotics.com.au/wp-content/gallery/photo-album/N-bicalcarata-Upper-6015.jpg

Or,

http://home.comcast.net/~jneps/NnorthianaLarge.jpg
 
  • #14
I find many pure species beautiful in their own way:
DroseraCapensis-1.jpg

DroseraAdelae.jpg

Cephalotus9.jpg
 
  • #15
I do prefer pure species more than hybrids. That's not saying I do not like LW, Adrian Slack or other spectacular hybrids. I think some people think of cp's mostly Sarracenia, like dogs. Most people prefer the purebreds instead of the mutts. But then there are people who like mutts instead of purebreds because of health related stuff. Kind of like cps in a way that hybrids are likely more vigorous growing.
 
  • #16
Technically you can produce a "pure" with hybrids. But maybe my genetics are rusty. Then again most of em are sterile.
 
  • #17
I mainly keep pure species of Sarracenia because they're location specific and I'm preserving the genotype. I do enjoy creating hybrids, but some hybrids lose the features of the pure species regardless of what happens. There are some hybrids, however, that are mind blowing.
 
  • #18
While it is theoretically possible to obtain a pure specimen from hybrids, the chances of that happening are so infinitesimally small they're basically nil. Not a good way to get pure specimens. You'd have to genetically test every plant (like billions or more of them) to make sure 100% of the DNA belonged to one species.

Most CP hybrids are fertile, aren't they? I know Sarracenia hybrids are... In fact, they seem to be more fertile than the parent plants, since many hybrids are capable of selfing themselves but most pure species aren't.
 
  • #19
yes as far as we know, the genera Sarracenia and Nepenthes are capable of producing complex hybrids, dont know how many generations it takes to produce sterile offspring though. Mexican Pinguicula also capable, and i believe the petiolaris complex also is capable of complex hybrids. dont know if utricularia and genlisea are capable of complex hybrids.

many of the drosera hybrids though are not fertile because of mix-matched chromosome counts. but yes, most are fertile, and more robust due to hybrid vigor. :)
 
  • #20
I'm curious if/when a cultivar becomes a subspecies and then a distinct species.
 
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