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Chatbox Code of Conduct Reminder

xvart

Doing it wrong until I do it right.
Staff member
Moderator
Over the past couple of months there have been several reports of questionable content being posted in the chatbox. For isolated incidents individual members were contacted about the infractions; however, the behavior was unfortunately much more persistent and pervasive and called for a stronger course of action.

The chatbox is a much more fluid discussion venue than the standard discussion board topics generated here and is therefore much more difficult to consistently monitor by the moderating team (and luckily up until recently was unnecessary for the most part).

Several members have been contacted and have lost chatbox privileges for a temporary amount of time. The duration of the restrictions varied by violation severity and number of violations during the reviewed period of time.

The forum rules apply to the chatbox (as is stated in the typing area of the chatbox prior to any text being entered). Rules that were notorious in the review included but were not limited to:
  1. Cursing, swearing, and vulgar language;
  2. Bypassing cursing, swearing, or vulgarity by substituting ASCII characters (i.e. $, @, etc. for similar looking letters);
  3. References to illegal drugs;
  4. Illegal file sharing;
  5. Vulgar and inappropriate images;
  6. Conversations of a sexual nature;
  7. Discussion of outside vendors (including vague references like "you know the one in [REDACTED] location) or abbreviations; and,
  8. Links to websites promoting or engaging in the previously mentioned topics.

It should also be noted that during this review period only individuals who initiated a particular conversation (i.e. illegal drug use) were given an infraction; however, in the future, all individuals who participate in the discussion may be held responsible for the relevant rule violation. The best course of action if in inappropriate topic surfaces is to ignore it or encourage the individual to cease.

The chatbox is a great benefit to Terraforums and we value the continuous fluid conversation that can occur at a moment's notice; but we need to ensure that the conversation follows the Terraforums rules such that the conversation is appropriate for all members and does not alienate any individual from participating.

As I believe there is potentially some value to discussion surrounding this issue this topic will be left open for discussion but shall not be used as a venue to air grievances on behalf of members who have had chatbox restrictions imposed on them. Since we protect the privacy of members by not discussing infractions and actions taken against members by the moderating team it would be a one sided conversation with our inability to publicly respond. As always, questions and concerns about forum privileges should be taken to pm.

xvart.
 
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I just corrected some inaccurate wording in bullet four above removing "torrenting" and leaving "illegal file sharing".

xvart.
 
Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly to you mean by "illegal file sharing"?
 
Okay, I am going to initiate some debate.

I use Terraforums daily. :p I have used it very regularly for a couple years now. I have made multiple purchases from flytrapshop.com and enjoyed them thoroughly. I have tried my best to maintain my "thank you membership", which I also enjoy much! I most of all am thankful for and continue to inhabit this site ultimately because of the potentially outstanding information and insight that can be found here regarding the cultivation, ethics, and biology of carnivorous plants.

I also understand that flytrapshop.com must do what it can to maintain a reasonable amount of business so that Andy can keep his business and this great treasure of a forum running well. The plants that flytrapshop sells are mostly very common species and to be honest is very limited in comparison to many other nurseries. That is offset by the fact that the prices are definitely quite competitive and the specimens I have seen are almost always robust and well packaged.

In many ways if one is to buy a common carnivore, flytrapshop is definitely the place to do it. Not to mention that the calender is something that is unique to flytrapshop. ;) :bigthumpup:

In regards to infraction number 7:

I, Dexenthes introduces the following resolution to the Administration and Moderators of terraforums.com:

Whereas: Terraforums.com is one of the most used and popular of all online venues to discuss carnivorous plants and is constantly frequented by growers of all skill levels and manner of experience.

Whereas: The sanction against discussion of outside vendors exists to stimulate business for the sole patron company and sponsor of this forum, flytrapshop.com.

Whereas:
flytrapshop carries almost exclusively relatively common, albeit robust and well priced carnivorous plants.

Whereas: Some of the plants that flytrapshop does carry are routinely given away by other generous forum members in giveaways or trades.

Whereas: This somewhat frequent free and generous spreading of common species such as P. moctezumae, D. capensis, and Dionaea muscipula could be considered competition for flytrapshop.

Whereas: Many of the members of this forum actively search for, trade, and grow a huge variety of much rarer and more expensive plants than flytrapshop carries.

Whereas: A large majority of the vendors that would or are theoretically discussed by many of the forum members specialize in or offer a vast array of plants that flytrapshop does not carry such as rare Nepenthes, Heliamphora, Utricularia, and Drosera.

Whereas:
Some other vendors are known by more experienced members to sell low-quality plants or have uncompetitive prices.

Whereas: Beginner growers could potentially benefit from knowledge regarding which nurseries are trustworthy or competitive.

Whereas: This knowledge and exchange of information could potentially increase competition and therefore lower prices and raise accountability in a market of plants that flytrapshop does not engage in.

Whereas:
Even in the specific market that flytrapshop does engage in, flytrapshop is competitive and has a great reputation.

Whereas: Many active members of this forum have shown that they will willingly support flytrapshop even if they are not interested in or already have the plants that flytrapshop offers.

Therefore: The sanctions against the open and free discussion of all carnivorous plant vendors should be lifted.

/2cents

"Don't ban me bro!"
:lol:
 
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The stance on vendors is not to discuss vendors within the US right? What about vendors who are located in other countries but ship internationally?
 
I have to say that I'm not a big fan of the no vendor names either. It's irritating to me that if somebody asks me "hey, where did you get that plant?" that I can't tell them, even in chat!
 
Refernces to Legal drugs are a no no too that should be in there
 
Refernces to Legal drugs are a no no too that should be in there

Maybe taking it a bit too far ??? Need to be more specific in these type of rules/regulations. Common medicinal drugs are still drugs; would you feel the need to ban someone for saying they just took medicine X for a headache? It is after all a 'Legal drug'.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Well said Dexenthes. I completely agree.
 
  • #10
I agree with Dex on the stance about not mentioning the vendors for the sake of promoting flytrapshop. Do you really get an increase in customers if other vendors are banned? Perhaps promoting your own store and offering a wider selection of plants would be a better option? A bit of healthy competition is always a good thing.
 
  • #11
I'll let someone else respond to the vendor discussion portion.

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly to you mean by "illegal file sharing"?
The biggest examples include pirated music and movies that have been obtained without the proper licensing.

Refernces to Legal drugs are a no no too that should be in there
I haven't consulted with Andrew or the other moderators but this is how I interpret this rule. I'll let Andrew or any of the other mods clarify/overrule me as necessary.

The rule stems around illegal drugs but also extends to the abuse of legal drugs. For example, "dudez I just got pwned by partaking in so much legal over the counter cough syrup. Walgreens Rocks, AMIRITE?!" is not appropriate. Obviously the discussion surrounding legal drugs falls into a much greyer category; and as I am about to have shoulder surgery I could foresee an innocent conversation developing in the chatbox where painkiller usage arises.

Hypothetical Chatbox Conversation said:
Person 1: "Surgery went well. It hurts a lot and if it wasn't for the painkillers I wouldn't even be able to browse TF..."
Person 2: "I had surgery last year and the painkillers they gave me made me sick."
Person 1: "What did they give you?"
Person 2: "Whateverthiroxine."
Person 1: "Oh yeah. Me too! That stuff really messed me up."
Person 2: "INORITE? I was staring cross eyed at the ceiling for hours..."
...

Typically when questionable natural conversations occur in a grey area they are reviewed based on intent and impact. Across the forums the best course of action anytime something comes up that may just possibly and even slightly violate the rules or even be interpreted as a rule violation it is probably best to not say it or not participate. On the other hand, if a natural conversation develops into questionable territory (like the example above) it would be best to cease the discussion in the public venue.
 
  • #12
Just some input. I agree that the ban on mentioning vendors is annoying.
However...this is Andrew's forum, not ours. While I welcome suggestions to change this rule, I don't think it should be the case that anyone actually breaks it. This Forum, in my eyes, is almost a gift. I don't have the funds, currently, to purchase many plants, or to donate via the calendar. I would hope others would also be willing to follow the fairly lenient rules as a toke of appreciation for what is given to us.
Happy growing,
Kyle
 
  • #13
Just a note: I have made the decision to significantly cut back on my participation on TF precisely because I find the "no naming vendors" rule unreasonably constrictive. Yes, it is the forum owners right to set whatever regulations they wish, but it is worth noting that in this instance, for this user, it has precipitated an undesirable change in behavior.

I believe that when a certain plant is discussed on TF, that flytrapshop should always be the first place referenced as a source. However, when the sought-after plant is not in the inventory of flytrapshop, it is reasonable (IMO) to suggest where one might obtain it. The argument could be made that any reference to any supplier drives traffic off the TF pages, but again, I think there is also the possibility that the current rule can have the effect of driving users away from TF, period.

I'm not suggesting changes in policy, I am just making an observation based on my personal experience. Feel free to disregard any/all of these remarks.
 
  • #14
If you're complaining now - everyone agreed to those rules when they joined up so none of xvart's original post should come as a nasty surprise but rather as a stern reminder.

Among other things, whenever I used to hit the barrier that I obtained a plant from a different vendor and I knew I can't name other businesses on here, I wanted to sell something, or I wanted to trade things that Flytrapshop sells; I just emailed, used AIM, used another forum, or just sent things as a surprise.

Recently it appeared to me in the chatbox that people were allowed to use vendors' names and actually 'shortened' names of their businesses without chastisement, so I started doing some of that too because I thought the rules had become less rigid. :)sorry:)

It's kind of startling when all of a sudden people appear to be banned out of the blue but I get it when I re-read the rules. When your friend disappears all of a sudden, it's hard to remember when you're sad/disappointed/mad that instead of venting on here, you should go re-read the rules. In order to facilitate 'remembering the rules', could TF please assign a dedicated chatbox mod? Or at least have a mod pop in at least once a day to make sure everything's going ok? Both to make sure that everyone is staying within the rules, and to realign things *if* there is something going on outside of the allowed.
 
  • #15
I have to second the vendor argument, but in all other instances, I think the rules are fair. After having visited a different forum, which did not enforce any kind of regulation in its chat box, I can see the necessity of maintaining these guidelines so that people may actually carry on thought-provoking conversations, without having some capricious, randy adolescent interrupting with crude remarks and insults just to be able to laugh to themselves, at home, in the dark.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a plant forum, and I think others should, too.
 
  • #16
Just some input. I agree that the ban on mentioning vendors is annoying.
However...this is Andrew's forum, not ours. While I welcome suggestions to change this rule, I don't think it should be the case that anyone actually breaks it. This Forum, in my eyes, is almost a gift. I don't have the funds, currently, to purchase many plants, or to donate via the calendar. I would hope others would also be willing to follow the fairly lenient rules as a toke of appreciation for what is given to us.
Happy growing,
Kyle

Agreed. That's why I've never publicly complained about the vendor discussion ban before. But now Xvart opened up this topic for discussion so I felt compelled to give my opinion, and that's all it is! I'll continue using Terraforums regardless!

If you're complaining now - everyone agreed to those rules when they joined up so none of xvart's original post should come as a nasty surprise but rather as a stern reminder.

Among other things, whenever I used to hit the barrier that I obtained a plant from a different vendor and I knew I can't name other businesses on here, I wanted to sell something, or I wanted to trade things that Flytrapshop sells; I just emailed, used AIM, used another forum, or just sent things as a surprise.

Recently it appeared to me in the chatbox that people were allowed to use vendors' names and actually 'shortened' names of their businesses without chastisement, so I started doing some of that too because I thought the rules had become less rigid. :)sorry:)

It's kind of startling when all of a sudden people appear to be banned out of the blue but I get it when I re-read the rules. When your friend disappears all of a sudden, it's hard to remember when you're sad/disappointed/mad that instead of venting on here, you should go re-read the rules. In order to facilitate 'remembering the rules', could TF please assign a dedicated chatbox mod? Or at least have a mod pop in at least once a day to make sure everything's going ok? Both to make sure that everyone is staying within the rules, and to realign things *if* there is something going on outside of the allowed.

A chatbox mod is a good idea. I understand that the existing mods are not on the site as much as many of the regular chatbox violators, so if one were made perhaps it would be a good idea to make one of the very active and responsible members into said mod.

Anyway, all just my opinion anyway! Not trying to tell anyone what to do just stating the observations I've made while here. :)
 
  • #17
As a chatroom violator and as probably the most experienced forumer and chatroomer here, I say that a chatroom mod is NOT A GOOD IDEA for a small community like us.
 
  • #18
As a chatroom violator and as probably the most experienced forumer and chatroomer here, I say that a chatroom mod is NOT A GOOD IDEA for a small community like us.

Could you explain why please? I've never been on a chatbox/chatroom before TF so I sincerely have no idea.
 
  • #19
Could you explain why please? I've never been on a chatbox/chatroom before TF so I sincerely have no idea.
To this day, I've been in over 15-30 small community chatrooms, and too many to count bigger ones, chatroom. The 8ish smaller ones that had mods all ended in extreme conflict. I believe it because if so little people around, you gotta go with what you have. So, with more focused conversations, rather than just talking to newer or random people, people are do much more likely to conflict with eachother.

If that didn't make any sense, ill try and use this example. With less people to talk to, you talk more than you would vs you having more people to talk. In those conversations, you're likely to hit more sensitive points with someone else over and over untill a enough rage builds between those two people. In this case, its gonna be a heated issue and starts with a bad call on the mods part.

You gotta have more than more mod to less or prevent this.
 
  • #20
A full time chat moderator is not needed. Moderators can look at the archives and take action as is needed. This could be done casually or on a rotating basis.

There have been three or four ugly incidents that I've witnessed when the presence of a moderator in chat might have eased the situation.

When Andrew added at the bottom of the chatbox the warning "Read the chat/forum rules. Breaking them can result in instant suspension from chat/forum." He did it for a reason. He even said in chat soon after that the ban hammer was the next step. People didn't take him seriously so the next step was taken.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a plant forum, and I think others should, too.

You have to remember too that Andrew and the moderators above all want this to be a kid and beginner friendly forum. Many of the other plant forums fail in this regard. In my opinion this attitude is what makes this forum stand out from the others.
 
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