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Thread: Species Extinction & Human Population Growth

  1. #17
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    Dave's comment about the unfortunate flip side of the CITES coin is absolutely correct: sometimes these regulations have unintended consequences. This makes it very difficult to know when you are doing "the right thing", and harder still to know what "the right thing" is. It's a very complex problem, without clear solutions.

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    heatherfeather knows the weather! lil hokie's Avatar
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    This has been a very interesting read. I have many things that I would say but since I am late to the race I will keep them to myself. I did find myself nodding to several points made here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    Dave's comment about the unfortunate flip side of the CITES coin is absolutely correct: sometimes these regulations have unintended consequences. This makes it very difficult to know when you are doing "the right thing", and harder still to know what "the right thing" is. It's a very complex problem, without clear solutions.
    I will say that I agree with the above completely.

  3. #19
    richjam1986's Avatar
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    Dave's comment about the unfortunate flip side of the CITES coin is absolutely correct: sometimes these regulations have unintended consequences. This makes it very difficult to know when you are doing "the right thing", and harder still to know what "the right thing" is. It's a very complex problem, without clear solutions.
    I would agree that these issues are very complex, and regulations are imperfect and can occasionally even cause harm. The thing is, there is a whole range of gray area between what is absolutely wrong and absolutely right. I can think of several situations where collecting might be illegal, but not necessarily unethical. I would say, however, that treating any natural location as if it WILL ultimately be developed anyway (as has been at least hinted at) is not the way to go. Any blanket statement on the matter is likely to be untrue, as there are so many factors and circumstances to consider.

    Sometimes it can just be plain difficult to know the best course of action. I think we would all agree on that.
    Da' mishu
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    My Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...29#post1089429

  4. #20
    richjam1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBella View Post
    Well, until you can stop the bush meat trade and muti medicine; or convince Asians that tiger paws, their dried penises; bear gall bladders; or even ivory won't put lead back into their pencils, good luck to you.
    All due respect, but again this sounds like a cop-out to me. Sure these problems are likely to continue, my point was generally that we all should do our part with what little influence we have. Collectively, this can be a significant influence. In talking about the Asian black market, I was specifically answering to a comment saying basically that we shouldn't worry about buying mass collected wild seed, as that is the exporting country's responsibility to control. My point was, of course it is also our responsibility because WE are the market; and without a market, irresponsible seed collection won't continue.

    Then there are the so-called "background extinction rates" to consider; just how long does a given species exist -- whether we potentially contribute to its demise or not?
    I know all about background extinction rates, but we as humans are liable to create the next mass extinction event all by ourselves , irrespective of 'natural' background extinction rates (I've read several studies on this exact topic in my conservation biology course). Are you saying that we should not attempt to stop even human caused extinctions? Or do you not believe that humans dirrectly cause extinctions? If so, then I don't know what to tell you...except that we do. lol. Edit: OR, do you hold to the "everything will go extinct sometime anyway, so why does it matter" mindset? If so, I already addressed that in an earlier post in this thread (as has Whimgrinder, Here: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...40#post1105940) ...

    I'm not speaking to the experience you shared specifically, but in general terms. I understand how it would be unbecoming to rat out your hiking partners for collecting small amounts...
    ...

    Edit: Sorry if I'm sounding super nit-picky. I can get super obsessive about details to the point of being silly. I really should just back away from this thread and get behind a plexiglass shield before something blows up in my face. lol
    Last edited by richjam1986; 12-18-2012 at 12:22 PM.
    Da' mishu
    Provo, Utah.

    My Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...29#post1089429

  5. #21

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    Sure glad I started this string and lit the fuse. Interesting stuff and a discussion about illicit drug use would follow along similar lines where the product sellers and product users are concerned. I stopped using cannabis years ago partly because my money was literally going up in smoke and partly because law enforcement officers were putting their lives on the line and worse. It's easy to feel real small and inconsequential when taking on any huge subject, how many times has someone used the excuse for not voting, "My Vote Doesn't Count Anyway"? When I am out field collecting local native snakes I'm careful to leave the wooded areas and flat rocks the way I found them. I have a special love for areas I grew up with and can even relate funny stories about specific rocks or plants that are still in the same place. My paternal grandparents established a camp by a small town called Tightwad near Warsaw, Missouri in 1940 and being invested in that area I have watched the environment change over the years and especially when Truman Reservoir went in and flooded the lowlands including the three primitive lakes that my grandparents established. I miss the small frog species and especially the cottonmouth snakes that called the area home. With all of that water in the valley and an increase in nighttime moisture there has been some plant and animal species change I have witnessed. A species of Lichen like they use in model railroading in several areas that I never saw previously. I'm always on the lookout for some already discovered sundew species in the damper areas since none are currently thought to be in this part of the Midwest. My old pre-Truman Lake Reptiles of Missouri book indicated a tiny colony of Pygmy Rattlers (Sistrurus miliarius streckeri) right in the wooded hill / cedar glade areas of the family camp I mentioned. The updated copies since the lake went in aren't showing that colony any longer so when I am combing those woods and encounter a glade, some time is spent looking and hoping for a relic group they might have missed. My brother, who introduced me to snakes as a kid, claims and I believe him that he encountered a small rattlesnake with a girth the size of his little finger and about 8" long which could only be a streck'.
    I just wanted to prove that I am invested in the natural world and being a bit of a novice where CP's are concerned assumed that conservationists and law enforcement in those countries where Nepenthes exist were proactive and had helped to gather information used in the Cites report. You are right about the market driving poaching and that is a tough nut. I watched a show about the California abalone and the poaching by the Asian community there. What struck me was the blank dear-eyed look the offenders had during the arrest and seizure process, it was obvious that they could care less and would most likely return to the practice once they were released. The same thing with the invasive snake-head working it's way up the Mississippi to the Great Lakes. The poaching of the small black bears in the Southeast for their gallbladders is despicable too. What I learned here has altered my thinking and I will be more conservative where my collecting is concerned and even though I am a single speck of sand on a planet full of sand will just take satisfaction in doing my part and passing that attitude along to my 14 grand kids.
    [richjam1986], thanks for admitting that you obsess, I don't feel as alone now.
    You can tell how obsessive a person is by the number of words it takes to make a point.

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