User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 8 of 14

Thread: Ethical Question

  1. #1
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Ethical Question

    This is a hypothetical, based upon hearsay, so no need for any fireworks! Say I'm kicking around in the Pocono Mts of PA or the pine barrens of NJ, and I come across one of the legendary introduced VFTs. Legalities aside, I'm curious what people have to think about the ethics of collecting such plants.

  2. #2
    scottychaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Western New York, USA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I dont know, but please consider changing your avatar..ick.

    Scot

  3. #3
    The Most Uncreative Name in the History of Ever Plant Planter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    675
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I really don't believe that's ethical. Venus flytraps are a vulnerable, almost endangered species. They are part of a monotypic genus, Dionaea, so they have no close relatives that are REALLY like them. (Even Aldrovanda has its differences.) They grow naturally exclusively in the bogs of North and South Carolina, and their habitats are rapidly being destroyed. A single plant could divide every couple of years and produce many seeds each year, which, being in their natural habitat, would very likely germinate and produce new plants. To top all that off, it's not just happening to the flytraps. Many carnivorous plant genera, particularly Nepenthes, have vulnerable, endangered, and critically endangered species that stand no change against the might and will of man. The only reason they're still around is that people finally have opened their eyes and started working to keep them alive. The genus Aldrovanda is chock-full of extinct taxa, a seventeen out of eighteen, in fact, and poor Aldrovanda vesiculosa, the last of its kind, is a vulnerable species. The Venus flytraps are disappearing, and you, if you hypothetically took a plant from the wild, would probably kill it from the shock of being uprooted anyway.

    All in all, I'm not for poaching plants.

  4. #4
    Tastes like chicken! Exo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Albion, NY
    Posts
    2,895
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But......*polishes his horns* They are an introduced species in PA, not native....do not belong there.....so you could say that they are an invasive, from a purely ethical standpoint.
    Some days it just isn't worth chewing thru the restraints.

    My growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...255#post961255

    Video of my birth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xc5wIpUenQ

  5. #5
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,875
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Perhaps more to the point, why would you choose to dig up established plants in the wild (introduced or otherwise) rather than purchase plants from nurseries whose aim is to provide these plants without impact on naturalized populations? Dionaea are cheap, relatively speaking. Please, support the vendors whose efforts are often centered on the ethical distribution of the various rare (and in many cases critically endangered) insectivores.

  6. #6
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    7,506
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An introduced species need not be invasive. Drosera capensis when introduced to cooler temperate climates barely holds it own. It is non-indigenous however and entities like the Nature Conservancy typically removes non-indigenous species if the habitat is protected. However the dilemma is that Dionaea is a CITES Appendix II list species and is listed on the Red List as a species of concern/threatened species. The Red List notes that a review of the species status should be done every 10 years. Dionaea is long overdue. A new survey could well bump the status up endangered and CITES Appendix I. The recent survey of Aldrovanda spearheaded by Adam Cross led to that species being listed as endangered.

    Other than that as other have brought up there is the poaching aspect. Who owns/manages the land? Is it public or private? If public is it Federal, State or local public land. Each have their own protected species lists. For all you know those are the official plant of some town and are protected by the towns ordinances.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  7. #7
    maxima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hehe I like the avatar!

    I don't think it's ethical either. Arguably things are already bad out there so some people think they are doing them a favor by removing them from nature but this same excuse has destroyed so many species in the "pet business" for instance. Maybe some species have been saved but overall many more have been harmed because somebody wants to show off some rare creature at home.
    I could understand the temptation if it were a rare plant in the hobby. I wouldn't do it but I can understand. However, just like Wire Man said, this plant is so readily available in the hobby and there are such beautiful cultivars of it that I can't imagine why anyone would uproot a wild plant. I think tissue culture should be enough.
    I don't mean to sound patronizing but I really don't believe any true nature lover would bother a plant or anything out there.

  8. #8
    jlechtm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    N. Virginia, USA
    Posts
    240
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ethically, I think this is a gray area. VFTs aren't endemic to PA and NJ or FL (unless you happen to ask the people who think they may naturally have been carried there by migratory birds? . VFTs likewise aren't invasive, but they still don't belong. I wouldn't consider Sarracenia to be an invasive species, either, but I have seen S. minor and S. rubra introduced introduced into the NJ Pinelands with unintended consequences (vole consumption leading to plants splitting apart and traveling downstream far wider than anyone might have expected, hybridization with native S. purpurea, etc.).

    As you rightly exempted, SubRosa, laws trump here. It is (if I'm recalling correctly) illegal to collect any living thing from NJ state lands. If it was on private property, and you had permission, or the state's laws otherwise allowed for collection along roadsides, etc., I wouldn't have a problem with you removing an introduced VFT.
    Growing CP since 1975. Succeeding (more or less) since 1990.

    Sarracenia & Heliamphora Growlist

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •