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Thread: Circle of trust

  1. #17
    carnivorous plants of the world -- unite! DragonsEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky View Post
    This is sad to read
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoness View Post
    My biggest peeve is when people never contact me post-trade to let me know they got the package, if it settled in well, or germinated, etc.
    Understandable. I always like to know that the package and its contents arrived safely. That being the case, I endeavor to do the same when I'm the recipient.

    "Blessed are the cracked….
    For they are the ones who let in the light."



  2. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoness View Post
    My biggest peeve is when people never contact me post-trade to let me know they got the package, if it settled in well, or germinated, etc.
    Personally I feel like this is more applicable to giveaways, since the recipient is getting something for free. During a trade I think the most important thing is upholding your end of the deal, so I don't really contact the person I am trading with afterwards unless there is a problem with what I received (which hasn't happened so far).

    I have traded some plants that were dead upon arriving at the other end and have been told of that, which I think is important because it means I wasn't able to uphold my end of the deal and it also tells me that I need to do something different next time, like package the plants differently or ship at a different time. If there are no problems like that, though, I don't see an obligation for either party to contact the other. Sure, it doesn't hurt but why should it be necessary?

  3. #19
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    This is an interesting thread.

    I can say that in my time here on Terraforums that in all my experiences in trading, giving away, or receiving plants I have only had one or maybe two instances where I felt that the other party was a dead-beat. It's unfortunate that some of you other members have felt that to be the case more often than is acceptable.

    For me the spirit of giving away plants or trading plants to the terraforums community is one that I have come to accept without expectation, without caveats and without any sense of attachment. I have received plants and seeds in giveaways and in my own life never found the time to post follow up photos, let the grower know how the plant is doing etc, and so when I send plants or seeds I know that it's okay to me if I never hear those details from other growers. In fact, the few plants that have been so important to me that I NEEDED to know how they were doing post-trade, I specified that in the body of the post.

    When posting a giveaway on Terraforums - I am well aware that my plants and seeds are most likely headed towards a segment of this hobby's population that falls under the category of: Noobies, transients, half-hearted growers, beginners, and veterans re-starting their collections. It's just the nature of this forum and as far as I have seen it has more or less always been the nature of this forum. This is a place for beginners, lurkers, and the likes.

    If you don't like the fact that your plants are going to these non-participating free-loaders, then don't post giveaways. And if you do post giveaways there are many techniques that one can use to ensure that the person who receives the plant(s) is "deserving" of them. Some methods that come to mind are: Thank you members only (few people do that anymore), post count requirements, photo evidence of their growing set up, solving a riddle, or other such fun things like that.

    As far as trading valuable plants goes - be discerning. Be picky. Report offenders.

    I just sent away a plant of mine that I had grown for the better part of 4 years and the person I sent it to was someone who had no post count so to speak of and has never contributed anything to this forum. Furthermore he lives in an area that I know full well to be almost certain death to a highland Nepenthes. The thing is, I didn't have to send it to him, but I did, because I said I would, because the requirements of my giveaway weren't stringent enough to select against people like that, and I used to BE a grower like that. When I was fresh, I was unworthy, and in some respects maybe I still am, but the fact is, growers extended their arm of charity to me without expectation, and with no strings attached. Did many of those plants perish in my nubile care? Yes. But their generosity was not lost as now I have internalized the spirit of giving and charity and I am unafraid to send valuable plants or seeds all across the country to whomever it may be. Maybe my plants will die, maybe my seeds will never germinate, maybe that person will never even log back onto TF. But in their lives, I know that the spirit of giving and of compassion and selflessness will, in some form, manifest itself within them. That is why I wont stop doing giveaways or unbalanced trades here on TF.

    In regards to trust:

    "The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them." - Ernest Hemingway
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  4. #20
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    Couldn't have said it better. At least somebody understands "The Tamlin Effect".
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  5. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcal View Post
    1. Giveaways - most people are grateful but a lot of people give you grief about shipping around their schedule or the plant being smaller, bigger, roots being too big! You name it I have heard it. So my future giveaways will have strict guidelines.

    2. Scams - I have gotten scammed from 3 people this year that I can remember. And I'm sure the names would shock you. Not going to admins because tried that and it didn't work. Not looking for someone else to resolve the issue. Simple fix for me is to only trade with the people I trust. Most likely if your not on a first name basis I will be weary.
    Stricter Guidelines are the way to go with any sale, trade or give away. I've been buying, selling and trading live animals and plants online for about 15 years. I used to be loose with my terms but I've found that things just go smoother when all the details are covered. Type up some terms, save them and then paste them at the bottom of each sale/trade/giveaway. Once that's done, it's easy and everything goes smooth.

    I've also had members forget to notify when they have received a giveaway from me. I do feel that it's polite to let someone know if you've received something for free. Also, I worry about the live plants I send out, and it's nice to know they arrived safe. I've found that if I ask a person to PM me when the package arrives in the last private message AND with a little note in the box, I normally get a "the package arrived" PM.

    I do realize, that once I give something away, it's no longer mine. And the person who I give it to can do whatever they want with it. They might stomp on the box once it arrives, they might sell it, they might give it to a friend, they might love it and make it prosper and help spread it by having 100s of giveaways on this forum.

    As for ungrateful people who complain about the size of a plant. I tell them that (1) the size was mentioned in the thread. (2) "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". And (3) if they complain they won't receive anything free from me in the future. At that point, most will realize their mistake and then show their appreciation.

    As for trade scams, I am very trusting but I look for a few things. I check how long the person has been on a forum. I check how many posts the person has. If they been on the forum for a shorter time than me, or if they have only a few posts, I make them send first (It's also worth checking what types of posts they make). Once their package arrives, then I'll ship out to them. After I know they are trustworthy, if we trade again, then I'll ship on the same day as they ship. (Do keep in mind, that if you are going to trade with someone else who has more post or years on you, and you haven't traded with them, you must be willing to ship first if they ask you to.)

    But if something does go wrong, report it. Reports add up and can help identify a "bad egg".


    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoness View Post
    the first post in the "trading" section be an offering, trade or giveaway before you can sign up to receive.
    This is problematic because many new members don't have anything to trade. I was fortunate and I had some aquarium plants and fish to offer. Actually, Jcal, you were the first person to trade with me!

    What I find on many animal/plant forums, but I do not find here, is a REVIEW SECTION. I think it would do the forum a great deal of good if we had one. That way, we could report the good experiences and the bad for each member we deal with. I have a huge list of positive reviews on other forums, but on here, no one knows it. Am I safe to trade with or not? On this forum, there is no way to tell.

    But yes, this is my first and only Carnivorous Plant forum that I'm a member of. I'm still having fun and I hope to continue that!
    Last edited by Acro; 10-31-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #22
    anramitaco's Avatar
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    This is an interesting thread. It's a shame that there are so many people who come here looking for free plants and have nothing to contribute in return.

    Whenever I look over the trading post, I hardly recognize anyone in the comment section who has entered into various giveaways.
    I'm a relatively new TF member and don't post very often in discussions, mostly because there is already so much information posted and I'd rather search through the forum than start a new thread asking a question that has been answered over and over again. So I guess that makes me more of a lurker. But when I feel I have something to contribute to the community, I do. Usually, that's some extra plant material that doesn't seem to be common in cultivation. I'm not interested in making money from cuttings or seedlings and would rather share what I have with other growers. I don't mind not hearing about the plant's safe arrival (if USPS says it was delivered and the recipient doesn't complain about not getting it, I just assume no news is good news), but sometimes I'll send a follow-up email, just to see how it's doing.

    There's a lot of potential with giveaways and trades: building a network of growers, sharing cultivation techniques, spreading around plant material that is otherwise hard to come by. As Dexenthes said, a lot of people in the trade section are new, inexperienced, etc. That's not at all surprising. People who have already established relationships with other growers can pretty much bypass the trade section. So I know that there's a chance the plant may go to someone who will kill it, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. :-)

  7. #23
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcal View Post
    I did contact you. For the first one that happened awhile ago.

    The most current instances have not been reported.
    Huh, sorry about that. I keep a download of all of my PMs since 2007-08-17 22:27 (that's my oldest one) and see none from you regarding a complaint. I have all my emails since 1/11/2007 and don't see anything in there from you either. Unless you've changed your name or something at some point, I don't remember. Or maybe you had contacted a mod, but I don't see anything about that in the moderator forum either (which would require them to post something).
    Either way, sorry whatever issue you had was not given the attention it deserved. :`( this makes me sad.

    I feel a bit of the here for the free stuff crowd is a bit of our fault- but I won't say it is new. For as long as I've been on this forum (I joined it in 2001 only a couple months after it was created by luck and was member 27 IIRC) there has always been a wonderful group of people doing giveaways. And there has always been people joining the forum to get in on those giveaways. People have always either been fine with knowing their plants could be going to these types of people, or they put restrictions and limits on the giveaway, which as mentioned we have seen lots of really creative stuff. This forum will never limit your ability to decide what you do with your plants. If you want to give them away to anyone, go for it. If you want to put so many restrictions and stipulations on your giveaway that it takes 2 years for someone to finally fit them in order to accept your plant, that's fine by me too.

    I do have methods to make it so people with only so many posts/registration time/activity on the forum can participate in the trading forum, but what I've seen on other (non-cp) forums is that people just spam the forum to get past these things. So then you end up with a lot of "nice plant" posts or whatever in order for them to get into the trading forum. I'm not willing to compromise the general forum with these types of posts in order to attempt to keep these people off of the forum. I'd rather people who are worried about it, to put restrictions on their posts. Heck, steal someone else's giveaway ideas if you want to

    I appreciate all of you, and the differences we all bring to this community. The mods and myself are here if you need help, sure sometimes we need reminders or sometimes we may not get directly back to you... But feel free contact another mod if you don't think you're getting the attention you need on an issue. And remember this, if you use that "report" button.... It creates a post in the moderator forum, where all of us can work on an issue at once! That's the best way to do it, so we can all see the issue, and make sure it is being followed up on, as well as having a visual reminder right there when we log in.

    Thanks,
    Andrew
    -Andrew
    Owner of TerraForums, FlyTrapShop.com, and cpforums.org.
    Support FlyTrapShop, support TerraForums! www.flytrapshop.com

  8. #24

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    I have a little different view than most out there so I'll try and share it. When I originally joined TF I traded some to get the basic plants I wanted, while doing this I added many people to my "circle of trust". Over the years I've sent and received many plants from people I developed a relationship with due to joining the TF community. Every year I received (mostly non-solicited, sometimes I just want something) more plants from these same people than I am able to "trade" back. I have almost completely stopped trading mostly due to this example. I get a random PM, they want to trade for X plant, I find a single item on there growlist I might want and agree to trade. Photo's are exchanged so we each know what we are getting and I get the following, your plant is only worth $20 and mine is worth $40 you need to add something else. This is were I generally say no thanks and now I just answer random PMs with I don't trade anymore.

    The end result of these "extras" is the feeling that I should "give back" to the community as a whole and that is what I have been trying to due over the last several years. I've been adding more rules to my giveaways to make the process easier for my wife and me. Many of my requests, (hey I'm trying out a new medium, let me know what you think, or I'm trying a new shipping method give me some feedback) go unanswered which in turn makes me think they really don't appreciate the time and effort involved in running a giveaway. Spending a few minutes to type a PM is nothing compared to the time involved in just packing one of these boxes up, printing the shipping label, typing the giveaway thread, or the trip to the post office. I could go on, its a lot more work than most realize.

    I understand the concern but I still have the same drive to keep running these giveaways, I have received and continue to receive more value from the TF community than I'm giving back.

    I'm going to continue with as many giveaways as my health allows in the hopes that the "pay it forward" concept will keep going, more to preserve the unique clones and rare plants than to give something away. If only a handful of people are growing a clone that is a bad thing in my mind.

    I know this is a bit all over the place but this is not one of my good days and medications do that. It took me over an hour to type this so ignore anything that does not make sense

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