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Thread: Hypothetical question regarding wild plants and trespassing

  1. #57

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    I never said that they have rights because they are sentient, I just said they have rights because they are
    A. Living
    B. Part of an ecosystem
    C. Endangered?

    Just to clarify.

    Because I do feel that all living things deserve respect because they are living** lol just trying to clear

  2. #58
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eithan0693 View Post
    I never said that they have rights because they are sentient, I just said they have rights because they are
    A. Living
    B. Part of an ecosystem
    C. Endangered?

    Just to clarify.

    Because I do feel that all living things deserve respect because they are living** lol just trying to clear
    So does a cat violate the rights of the mice it kills? What if the mouse is an endangered species? What if the cat is? What if they both are?
    Last edited by SubRosa; 10-29-2015 at 02:28 PM.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  3. #59

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    No..? But I'm not gunna kill a mouse for no reason.. I think we discussed briefly the right to sustain your own life? I mean it's the cycle of life which I also respect and I'm not going to disrupt.

    Ask my opinion all you want just be serious about it , no need to make pokes I'm not a crazy nature fanatic

  4. #60
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eithan0693 View Post
    No..? But I'm not gunna kill a mouse for no reason.. I think we discussed briefly the right to sustain your own life? I mean it's the cycle of life which I also respect and I'm not going to disrupt.

    Ask my opinion all you want just be serious about it , no need to make pokes I'm not a crazy nature fanatic
    Have you perceived anything I have directed towards you as a "poke"? If so allow me to poke you by saying you are mistaken. We agree that all creatures have the right to kill for their basic needs. Good. Let's consider a weasel. Are you familiar with the basic nature of a weasel? As someone who's first job was working on a chicken farm I am well acquainted with it. If a weasel gets into a chicken house, it kills every chicken it can get its teeth into. It will kill more chickens than it could possibly carry, or even eat in a year. Is the weasel violating the rights of the chickens it kills beyond its needs as you claim a person is. If not, why not?
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  5. #61
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    In the words of Carl Grimes - "Everything is food for something else."

  6. #62
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnathaniel View Post
    Interesting analysis of force, John, but without more I don't buy the analogy. Not all of what we call 'force' is qualitatively homogenous, nor is all we call 'property'. And even from a 'natural' rights perspective, property rights are arguably much more derived and socially constructed than are rights to bodily integrity.
    Please understand that my analysis of force was at the most fundamental level, and did not include the influence that living in a society has upon the process. Looking at my example of defensive force, dropping your assailant with a single blow and walking away is saintly behavior compared to what I personally think should be done to the perp. No person whose opinion matters can argue against that response to an attack. Imo he deserves a lot worse. But because I live in a society I accept that kicking him until he coughs his lungs out is unacceptable and should be punished.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  7. #63

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    I quite enjoy stimulating conversation which is why I keep coming back to this

    I was not exactly familiar with the nature of a weasel. I'm not exactly claiming that taking more then absolutely needed is wrong because I myself have a lot more then I could ever "need" I'm typing to you on a phone I don't need if you want to get technical need is based solely on survival I think right? Well then I don't need my phone. That being said the weasel doesn't need to kill that many chickens. You've definitely got me thinking now which I like in fact, and to add to it lets just say this is an endangered species of weasel and these chickens are "owened" by someone who doesn't "need" them and it's in the weasels nature.. so I guess I would have to say slightly contrary to my first statement maybe I still would do something because the weasel is being wasteful and the chickens have no natura defense against them maybe it would be in the chickens and the humans best intrests to stop the weasel. As for the weasels rights , if it was possible to relocate this and other weasels of the Same species to somewhere they didn't have access to chickens to kill for fun. I think it's our duty at least someone to maintain balance and order on this planet being that we are at the top of the food chain, it would make sense to protect everything under us. To what extent that protections goes I'm sure some would argue to shoot the darn weasel and I probably wouldn't argue with the person with a gun either..

    Thanks for making me think it's actually been a great discussion now that it's turned more conversational and not as much just arguing. I love to discus bur no point things getting heated

  8. #64
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eithan0693 View Post
    I quite enjoy stimulating conversation which is why I keep coming back to this

    I was not exactly familiar with the nature of a weasel. I'm not exactly claiming that taking more then absolutely needed is wrong because I myself have a lot more then I could ever "need" I'm typing to you on a phone I don't need if you want to get technical need is based solely on survival I think right? Well then I don't need my phone. That being said the weasel doesn't need to kill that many chickens. You've definitely got me thinking now which I like in fact, and to add to it lets just say this is an endangered species of weasel and these chickens are "owened" by someone who doesn't "need" them and it's in the weasels nature.. so I guess I would have to say slightly contrary to my first statement maybe I still would do something because the weasel is being wasteful and the chickens have no natura defense against them maybe it would be in the chickens and the humans best intrests to stop the weasel. As for the weasels rights , if it was possible to relocate this and other weasels of the Same species to somewhere they didn't have access to chickens to kill for fun. I think it's our duty at least someone to maintain balance and order on this planet being that we are at the top of the food chain, it would make sense to protect everything under us. To what extent that protections goes I'm sure some would argue to shoot the darn weasel and I probably wouldn't argue with the person with a gun either..

    Thanks for making me think it's actually been a great discussion now that it's turned more conversational and not as much just arguing. I love to discus bur no point things getting heated
    I'm glad you're finding this enjoyable. Try thinking about it this way. The chickens are your property and you have the right to defend them. Trying to reconcile what you are beginning to think is acceptable with the concept of animals having individual rights is a contradiction an aircraft carrier could sail through. Given that the most basic right is the right to one's own life, it seems silly to claim a creature has rights while it's being bought and sold. The "rights" granted by law to animals are actually just restrictions upon what people can do with their property.
    Last edited by SubRosa; 10-29-2015 at 04:55 PM.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

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