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Thread: They told me not to grow it this way...

  1. #17
    villosaholic Heli's Avatar
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    I've never visited any wild Nepenthes habitats so I can't say for sure. However, my guess is that as you go lower in altitude on a mountain, there is more vegetative competition that Nepenthes (at least highlanders) can't handle. This makes sense considering how fragmenteted mountain ecology can be.
    Last edited by Heli; 12-01-2015 at 11:05 AM.

  2. #18
    instigator thez_yo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katya_dog1 View Post
    Well, after a PM to Thez_yo I'm going to try this.


    One thing I am wondering about though-- If these plants can grow as intermediates (as exhibited by the pictures shown) how come they aren't found at lower elevations in their natural habitat? Perhaps they can grow well in warmer conditions for a time, but once they are fully mature they need a nightly temp drop?

    Here's what I see-- The plants would naturally occur where it is best to grow them, right? You don't see Flytraps growing in the Midwest, right? But you can still grow flytraps there (and in a gigantic range of conditions, from desert to swamp.)

    Obviously, flytraps will do best in high humidity, high temperature and lots of sun as in their natural habitat, but they don't NEED it. So I'm thinking it could be the same with Nepenthes.

    If this reasoning isn't faulty, what this leads to is that highland Nepenthes can grow in a much wider range of conditions than where they do in the wild.
    I had a brief chat with BigBella the other day and it was about this sort of topic. It boiled down to, does a plant need an obscure chemical found in the soil/rocks of its in-situ climate, or is it that the particular chemical might be a poison to other plants effectively eliminating competition and the plant that does grow there can tolerate a reasonable amount of it?

    That conversation was about a Nepenthes specifically, but it also applies to what some people are trying with Darlingtonia. Does Darlingtonia absolutely need Serpentine mixed into its growing media, or is it that Serpentine is poisonous but Darlingtonia can still grow despite it?

  3. #19
    An orchid fancier with a CP problem chibae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thez_yo View Post
    If you're defining in-situ as full potential, the wild outdoors has even more problems than my balcony.

    My plants don't get eaten by large herbivores, don't get used as a scratching stick or play toy by wild cats, don't get bulldozed to make way for a casino, don't have fires rip through their grow area, etc. ad nauseam.

    They also *do* get regular watering, their pests controlled or eliminated, trained up stakes so they don't bend and snap, artificially fertilized so all seed pods have a chance to ripen, etc.

    It seems like most plants have a symbiotic relationship with root bacteria or fungus to boot, e.g. the root tincture Av8tor1 uses on his Heliamphora or the bugs required to start orchids growing from seed, so growing in an absolutely sterile environment might actually be a bad thing. It's weighing the negatives versus the positives. In my situation, putting in a grow tent introduces a heat problem. If I have a heat problem, I have to provide a fan or AC, in which case I have to re-up the humidity and then add a humidifier. In stead of growing my plants a little dry, I now must pour money into 3 different devices (tent, fan/ac, humidifier) to re-create slightly better conditions. In comparison to growers who have plants in more humid conditions, my plants have tougher stalks and leaves, smaller pitchers, and are shorter. I'm ok with that because I have limited space anyway.
    Just wanted to give this a +1. Agree totally.
    It's a tough life being a Sarracenia farmer
    My Grow List http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=123776

  4. #20
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thez_yo View Post
    If you're defining in-situ as full potential, the wild outdoors has even more problems than my balcony.

    My plants don't get eaten by large herbivores, don't get used as a scratching stick or play toy by wild cats, don't get bulldozed to make way for a casino, don't have fires rip through their grow area, etc. ad nauseam.

    They also *do* get regular watering, their pests controlled or eliminated, trained up stakes so they don't bend and snap, artificially fertilized so all seed pods have a chance to ripen, etc.

    It seems like most plants have a symbiotic relationship with root bacteria or fungus to boot, e.g. the root tincture Av8tor1 uses on his Heliamphora or the bugs required to start orchids growing from seed, so growing in an absolutely sterile environment might actually be a bad thing. It's weighing the negatives versus the positives. In my situation, putting in a grow tent introduces a heat problem. If I have a heat problem, I have to provide a fan or AC, in which case I have to re-up the humidity and then add a humidifier. In stead of growing my plants a little dry, I now must pour money into 3 different devices (tent, fan/ac, humidifier) to re-create slightly better conditions. In comparison to growers who have plants in more humid conditions, my plants have tougher stalks and leaves, smaller pitchers, and are shorter. I'm ok with that because I have limited space anyway.
    I don't define full potential as in situ. You just seem to think I do. Full potential comes from both optimally meeting the organism's biological needs, (which in situ growing may or may not provide), and preventing the setbacks that are part of a "natural" existence.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  5. #21
    instigator thez_yo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    I don't define full potential as in situ. You just seem to think I do. Full potential comes from both optimally meeting the organism's biological needs, (which in situ growing may or may not provide), and preventing the setbacks that are part of a "natural" existence.
    Excellent, you're the proverbial 'they'! Can you tell us how you think we should be growing our plants?

  6. #22
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibae View Post
    Just wanted to give this a +1. Agree totally.
    Have you seen the new mod to the forum that allows you to "like this post" or "Thank! for this informational post"? Find the option directly below the post you want to give it to, and click the one that corresponds correctly.

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  7. #23
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thez_yo View Post
    Excellent, you're the proverbial 'they'! Can you tell us how you think we should be growing our plants?
    Indeed I can. In fact I already did.
    Last edited by SubRosa; 12-01-2015 at 12:49 PM.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBella View Post
    I do attempt to emulate their environments; but they are a bit more tolerant than most believe. It does get cold at altitude in SE Asia; and I once had a partially filled nalgene water bottle freeze, while camping in Borneo near 3000 meters . . .

    I have to try growing these plants; the only thing holding me back was the supposed difficulty. I would probably eventually upgrade to a greenhouse that is cooled in the summer and heated in the winter, but for now-- The species I'd like to try grow SLOW. So I wouldn't be expecting a plant to reach its fullest potential in my hands anyway.

    You and Thez_yo have convinced me. I'm at least going to buy a couple cheap Wistuba Macrophylla and Lowii clones; I can always sell/trade them to someone with a better setup if they begin to decline.
    Sarracenia Addicted... Lover of all toothed Nepenthes.
    The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. ~ The Second Amendment

    Keep it that way.

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