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Thread: Patented Sarracenia; What does this mean for growers?

  1. #9
    Enthusiastic Enthusiast Zath's Avatar
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    In response to Cruzzfish:

    Or you could simply buy one from the supplier (which I won't name), rather than attempting to get a strain of non-species Sarracenia to breed identical specimens from seed (would be a lifetime achievement if it were possible, lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    Define "truebreeding" please?
    In most cases, it refers to getting a plant to be homozygous so that any seed offspring of any two plants from that strain are identical to their parents barring random mutations, but here it's just until one comes out looking like the parent, because these plants are likely not homozygous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zath View Post
    In response to Cruzzfish:

    Or you could simply buy one from the supplier (which I won't name), rather than attempting to get a strain of non-species Sarracenia to breed identical specimens from seed (would be a lifetime achievement if it were possible, lol).
    Buying one from the supplier and breeding it isn't likely to get you an identical plant. I was suggesting to buy one from the supplier and keep breeding them from seed until you get just one that is identical/not distinguishable, then simply divide that one. The (simplified) math is that at least 50% of a selfed Cobra Nest should be identical to the parent, but because of how many genes there are it's probably a lot lower than that.

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    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    In doing so, the likelihood of ending up with a bunch of seedlings crippled by the accumulation of deleterious recessives is extremely high. Loss of hybrid vigor is almost inevitable and has been demonstrated many a time in line breeding efforts of numerous genera.

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    SerMuncherIV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzzfish View Post
    Buying one from the supplier and breeding it isn't likely to get you an identical plant. I was suggesting to buy one from the supplier and keep breeding them from seed until you get just one that is identical/not distinguishable, then simply divide that one. The (simplified) math is that at least 50% of a selfed Cobra Nest should be identical to the parent, but because of how many genes there are it's probably a lot lower than that.
    I believe Zath was saying to just buy the cultivar from the supplier and end it right there, to avoid the hassle (and problems with inbreeding) that come with repeatedly selfing consecutive generations of seed-growns, even if that would allow you to circumvent the patent...in other words, it's not worth it.

    Please correct me if I am mistaken.

  5. #13
    Enthusiastic Enthusiast Zath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerMuncherIV View Post
    I believe Zath was saying to just buy the cultivar from the supplier and end it right there

    Please correct me if I am mistaken.
    Nope, that was exactly the point I was trying to convey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SerMuncherIV View Post
    I believe Zath was saying to just buy the cultivar from the supplier and end it right there, to avoid the hassle (and problems with inbreeding) that come with repeatedly selfing consecutive generations of seed-growns, even if that would allow you to circumvent the patent...in other words, it's not worth it.

    Please correct me if I am mistaken.
    Yeah, but you can't distribute clones of that one. Any children that one has can be distributed.


    And Whimgrinder, you'd only have crippling inbreeding issues in animals. Plants are much, much more capable of handling that, and the few that are notably effected wouldn't be cloned from. All you need is just one that looks like the parent. In other plant communities, selfing them is actually a requirement for eight generations in order to say you have new strain.

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    Enthusiastic Enthusiast Zath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzzfish View Post
    Yeah, but you can't distribute clones of that one. Any children that one has can be distributed.
    So, what you're saying is: "I like the way the cultivar looks enough to spend several years of my life and hundreds of dollars attempting to breed a Sarr that looks just like it, so that I can distribute it freely among friends, than spend $30 (or less) to obtain a specimen which I am obligated to keep to myself until 2022."?

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    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    What always gets me is that cultivars are based on phenotype, not genotype (looks, not genetics directly). So even if you did manage to breed something that looks the same, unless you have some way of proving that it's genetically distinct you have the same infringement issues. Unless this has changed in the past decade or so?
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