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Thread: That "other" nursery

  1. #9

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    It still sounds fishy to me.

    I went back and searched the mailing list archives, and found nothing except bad things about that nursery.

    James Pietropaolo, in his book, plainly condones field collecting and gives poor reasoning for doing so.

    But I'm happy you've had a good experience with them. Maybe if I see a few more positive reports, I will begin to change my mind.

  2. #10

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    Check out the Better Business Bureau. http://search.buffalo.bbb.org/nis....7000118

    That is the listing for the company.
    Nick

    Careful where you crawl, it might be a trap!

    http://www.carnivorium.com
    http://www.buckeyecarnivores.com

  3. #11

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    That's a record of a complaint that required someone to report him to the BBB. I assume that the attempts to resolve it did not commence until the BBB intervened.

    I want to see some glowing recommendations.




  4. #12

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    You know... I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion AT ALL, but I must vent here.

    Nick, you are definitely entitled to think and believe what you wish... that's the nice thing about being a free person.

    HOWEVER, We've been in this business a while. We're by no means the authority in any way... but we've been around long enough to know about the reputations of others and what goes on.

    I called this place... specifically spoke to a man who called himself "Jay". I asked the pointed question of whether or not he deals in exclusively cultured material (speaking of flytraps)... he told me it was too expensive still. He basically eluded to the fact that it's less expensive to 'hire someone to get the plants' ...and he doesn't ask questions. He also mentioned people that pull plants from their own private property in which he offered compensation.

    I kinda just stopped there with a sick feeling in my stomach. So much so, that we've refused to sell to him when he called and asked to purchase Red Dragons and cephalotus from us. He doesn't know why we didn't sell to him, because I was not in the mood for confrontation... we just didn't sell to him. I'm not going to assist in any way in keeping another company that pulls ANY plant from the wild and sells it. ANY PLANT- PROTECTED OR NOT! There is a basic ethics issue here at hand... and there are some basic laws at hand. THough he may not have a legal problem selling field collected Sarracenia... it's still horrible that anyone would rape the environment for commercial gain...

    I most certainly side with those who are cautious of doing business. I was once told by another forum member of high character, that they called and asked to visit the place. They were refused. Another person has mentioned openly here, that he was there, but saw no live plants growing... everythign was just in coolers. (Non of this can I personally testify to... but I have no reason to disbelieve these people, as I've known them now for some time).

    Additionally... The ICPS is an extremely reputable organization that has been created by people that have the interest and needs of these plants in mind. This organization has posted on their website the experiences of this nursery and a word of caution. Now, do you think the members and founders of the ICPS would be spreading crappy rumors, or even wasting their time for something that was just second hand knowledge... or heresay. I think not.

    You can visit the site here http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq6010b.html

    FINALLY:

    The Better Business Bureau is a joke. I've been in business for myself all my life. At one point I subscribed to their bureau... but it's funded totally by Business subscriptions. They are vague when it comes to complaints... and they do NOT have a history of complaints unless they've gone unresolved. So the only thing that a company has to do... is follow up with the few disputes they get through the BBB, and their record is 'clean'... with no negative information.
    It serves the business more than it does the consumers.... which is a darn shame, because so many people use them.

    So at this point, I suggest you listen to what people have to say. It's more than the BBB can ever offer you... it is the real life experiences of people that have figured a company out.

    OH! AND! Before I forget... You mentioned about the legal issues and fines for selling these field collected plants. Remeber this: If a company is PURCHASING field collected material from a person or company... they are not going to be nailed for the 'crime' ... so it doesn't matter. If you've just purchased field collected material from a company, and they didn't collect it themselves... they can shrug it off as to being ignorant... and not knowing.

    Old habits die hard, my friend. If tissue culture is too expensive for someone (which it generally is for some nurseries, which is why places like us have more expensive stuff when it comes to flytraps)... they're not likely to absorb the additional cost unless they absolutely HAVE TO. And... if you have some 15 year old digging up plants from the wild at .23 cents each or whatever... why go spend $1.00 + per tissue cultured plug? Until the .23 stock runs dry in the wild... there's no reason for someone to suddenly become ethical and spend 4X that money on artificially propagated plants.

    I know I said FINALLY up there a while ago.. but this is really it.. finally....

    Finally, that nursery sells 10+ year old bulbs. NOW.. if this doesn't convince you... nothing will:

    Tissue culture of flytraps has not been around long enough in quantity for ANYONE to have a 10+ year old venus flytrap bulb that has grown out from TC. It's JUST NOT POSSIBLE. Though culture was available, it is EXTREMEMLY unlikely that they invested the money in culturing 10 years ago... especially when it was somewhat acceptable to field collect at that time. So it's JUST NOT POSSIBLE. We have a few 5,6,7 year old plants on our hands... but that's even pretty rare...

    So, rather than defending a company before the facts are laid out... think about the common sense behind it. Think about the market. Think about what you're getting and what you're paying for it.... and how big it is when it shows up. There's definitely ways to tell if those things are cultured or not... and I'd probably bet my last dollar that they weren't.

    So, if you choose to continue to support/defend some nursery... that's your decision. But listen to those that have been out there a while... those at the ICPS... those here... those everywhere that have posted things... not much positive except what I've heard from you tonight [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Cheers!



    Phillip J. Crane
    Austin, TX

  5. #13
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Quote
    Do you really think someone would take the time to dig up plants for $0.50 each?[/QUOTE]

    ABSOLUTELY! Pull up 1000 plants from a bog in a day and make yourself a quick 500 bucks. It would be very easy to do. Your talking about areas where wages are low and many people are unemployed.

    Quote
    The prices of their other plants are on par with other nurseries[/QUOTE]
    3.95 is on par with other nurseries?? You tell me how they could be nursery growing and propagating these plants and selling them for 2 to 3 times less than other nurseries KNOWN to be dealing in only artificially propagated plants whether at their own location or from purchasing from other mass growers either in the US or overseas.

    And 5.95 for 3, 5-10yr old bulbs?? thats less than $2 each!!! You cant buy a vft bulb that big wholesale, from large artificially propagated nurseries ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. Much less getting them for less than that and then turning around and marking them up to their retail price.

    This the last post I am making on this matter.
    T

    Thanks Phil for putting down in words all that has been swirling around my head! Glad you can cohesively express what I have been thinking... now I need to go cool down.



    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  6. #14

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    You can make a complaint to the BBB for any of the following reasons:

    * Misleading Advertising.
    * Improper Selling Practices.
    * Non-delivery of Goods or Services.
    * Misrepresentation.
    * Unhonored Guarantees or Warranty.
    * Unsatisfactory Service.
    * Credit/billing Problems.
    * Unfulfilled Contracts.

    Sending an incorrect plant is an unfulfilled contract. Any unsatisfactory service would include: Failure to deliver in a timely manner, incorrect product send without resolution, etc.

    If you are not satisfied with a company, that is all you need to file a complaint.
    Nick

    Careful where you crawl, it might be a trap!

    http://www.carnivorium.com
    http://www.buckeyecarnivores.com

  7. #15
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    In the time I've been online and researching carnivorous plants I've been contacted by two nurseries who wanted me to field collect for them. They don't do the collecting themselves, they offer to pay other people who live in the areas the plants grow wild in. Both were rather blunt about what they wanted and one continued to hassle me after I said no. I'll never do buisness with a nursery that field collects and it seems to me that even without my personal experience, Peter Pauls has a bad enough reputation to warrant avoiding them. But to each their own..
    just my two cents [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #16

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    That may be all you need to file a complaint... but if it gets resolved .. i.e. the company refunds you... or replaces the item with something more acceptable.. it goes on no permanent record for that company as being negative.

    BELIEVE ME ON THIS. We run a business, we are approached by the BBB we know how it works. They actually use that as a SELLING POINT.

    "Just resolve your disputes ... and it wont' show up"

    So that's it. There's no way to tell if a company actually has done wrong ... as long as they've covered their ***.
    Phillip J. Crane
    Austin, TX

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