|Do you really think someone would take the time to dig up plants for $0.50 each?[/QUOTE]|
ABSOLUTELY! *Pull up 1000 plants from a bog in a day and make yourself a quick 500 bucks. *It would be very easy to do. *Your talking about areas where wages are low and many people are unemployed. *
|The prices of their other plants are on par with other nurseries[/QUOTE]|
3.95 is on par with other nurseries?? *You tell me how they could be nursery growing and propagating these plants and selling them for 2 to 3 times less than other nurseries KNOWN to be dealing in only artificially propagated plants whether at their own location or from purchasing from other mass growers either in the US or overseas. *
And 5.95 for 3, 5-10yr old bulbs?? thats less than $2 each!!! You cant buy a vft bulb that big wholesale, from large artificially propagated nurseries ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. *Much less getting them for less than that and then turning around and marking them up to their retail price.
This the last post I am making on this matter. *
Thanks Phil for putting down in words all that has been swirling around my head! Glad you can cohesively express what I have been thinking... now I need to go cool down.
Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?
You can make a complaint to the BBB for any of the following reasons:
* Misleading Advertising.
* Improper Selling Practices.
* Non-delivery of Goods or Services.
* Unhonored Guarantees or Warranty.
* Unsatisfactory Service.
* Credit/billing Problems.
* Unfulfilled Contracts.
Sending an incorrect plant is an unfulfilled contract. Any unsatisfactory service would include: Failure to deliver in a timely manner, incorrect product send without resolution, etc.
If you are not satisfied with a company, that is all you need to file a complaint.
In the time I've been online and researching carnivorous plants I've been contacted by two nurseries who wanted me to field collect for them. They don't do the collecting themselves, they offer to pay other people who live in the areas the plants grow wild in. Both were rather blunt about what they wanted and one continued to hassle me after I said no. I'll never do buisness with a nursery that field collects and it seems to me that even without my personal experience, Peter Pauls has a bad enough reputation to warrant avoiding them. But to each their own..
just my two cents [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]
That may be all you need to file a complaint... but if it gets resolved .. i.e. the company refunds you... or replaces the item with something more acceptable.. it goes on no permanent record for that company as being negative.
BELIEVE ME ON THIS. We run a business, we are approached by the BBB we know how it works. They actually use that as a SELLING POINT.
"Just resolve your disputes ... and it wont' show up"
So that's it. There's no way to tell if a company actually has done wrong ... as long as they've covered their ***.
Phillip J. Crane
Once again, all those posts are from 1995-1996.
|Finally, that nursery sells 10+ year old bulbs. NOW.. if this doesn't convince you... nothing will:|
Tissue culture of flytraps has not been around long enough in quantity for ANYONE to have a 10+ year old venus flytrap bulb that has grown out from TC. It's JUST NOT POSSIBLE. Though culture was available, it is EXTREMEMLY unlikely that they invested the money in culturing 10 years ago... especially when it was somewhat acceptable to field collect at that time. So it's JUST NOT POSSIBLE. We have a few 5,6,7 year old plants on our hands... but that's even pretty rare... [/QUOTE]
The company has been in business since 1955. Times have changed, even if he field collected then, doesn't mean he does now. So, if it was acceptable 10 years ago to field collect, I would think he would have 10 year old VFT bulbs.
Now, all these plants we grow have had to come from the wild at one time. Times have changed from where humans had no concern for the environment around them. If they wanted to do something, they did. Now, we have to watch what we do because it impacts our environment more so than every before. Just because someone once did something, doesn't mean they still do it.
As for his book and mention of field collecting. Times have changed, he grew up in a time when it was acceptable to do so. It was not seen as anything wrong. People use to hunt elephants for sport, kill buffalo, use whale oil, unmanaged mass fishing, and stripping the land of trees without replanting. We have stopped hunting elephants for fun and stopped using whale oil. Fishing has become managed to keep populations up, and lands that have been cut for timber have been replanted to prevent soil erosion and to replenish the land.
So, for all you nursery owners who have replied. I noticed you are all newer than he is. So, you grew up in a different time or started your business at a different time. 1988 and 1998 are 33+ years after PP was started. A lot changes in 33 years.
As for not selling to Peter Pauls. Perhaps someone realized that the past ways have changed, field collecting is not acceptable anymore, and it was now time to do business differently.
Why do plants have to be TC to be acceptable for resale? There are other methods of propagation.
Well I guess I was wrong in my other post that it was the last one I was going to make.. THIS is the last one.
Call him up and ask if all his plants are from artificially propagated stock. Call him up and ask to come see his nursery.
Stop ignoring the fact that it is impossible to offer the plants he does at the prices he does on purely 100% artificially propagated stock. Whether they are from TC, cuttings, seed or anything else OTHER than removed from the wild LEGALLY or ILLEGALLY.
You are free to spend your money where ever you want, and believe whatever you like. I do hope you see that there is something very fishy with PeterPauls even to this day. Regardless of his past business practices. One member of this forum has even said they have been personally contacted more than once by not one but two nurseries trying to get people to collect plants for them. Collecting plants from the wild is a strong healthy business to this day.
Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?
I'm not sure if what I'm going to say will be constructive to the discussion, but I think that I should say it nonetheless.
You make several good points in your posts, however, there is a difference between possibility and probability.
Itís possible that PPN has had a field of vfts in their back yard for 20+ years where they get their 10+ year old rhizomes. Itís also possible that PPN buys plants from overseas in extremely high number to sell them so cheap. It is also possible that in 6 years PPN has reconciled with itís clientele and the rest of the CP community, and is now a good business.
I do not, however, think that any of these possibilities are sufficiently probable to merit eliminating PPNís bad reputation. The defense that you give for PPN stands on a very thin line. I believe in the benefit of the doubt, but in this case, IMO, you are stretching it too much.
Your faith in PPN is based on 2 good experiences, not enough to conclusively say that they have mended their ways.
(I would write more, but Iím not eloquent enought to say it right)
Now, lets say that I have a 4+ acre bog in my back yard and it has the capability of producing 10000+ venus flytraps a year. Now, from what I understand, it is illegal to collect these things, unless it is on ones own property. So, it would be legal for me to sell the 10000 plants on my own property. If this is true, why wouldn't I use this bog to produce plants for resale. Each year cuttings or divisions would be used to restock the production bog.
Do any of you know if there are any privately owned bogs that are in production of VFT bulbs? What I am getting at here is that it is possible that VFTs are being farmed just like corn, wheat, etc. Someone could have a large bog, or several people can have bogs, and be farming the plants. Selling 1000s of VFTs and then replanting the harvested sections of the bog. If one has 1 acre of such land, they have that right to do so and can produce large amounts of VFTs.
What I see here is that everyone is against taking a plant from the wild. If its private property, the owner has the right to do what he wants on his land. If filling in a bog is what he wants to do, then they do it. To me, it would be more productive to use that bog to produce more plants. If you have a pond in your back yard, natural or man made, why not stock it with native fish for people to eat? If someone has a bog that otherwise is no use to them, why shouldn't they be able to use it to farm carnivorous plants ( better than filling it in ). Sphagnum moss is harvested and allowed to re-grow before the same section is re-harvested ( better management methods than in the past ).
Isn't it possible there are VFT farms that are not being recognized as such because people say they are field collecting their plants. I believe people are doing just that. Someone makes some extra money of what their land can produce naturally.
As for the people being contacted to collect plants. I am glad you did not take up the offer.
I see a big problem with the term "field collecting". People grow crops in fields. So, by the term "field collecting", one can get confused. Corn and beans are field collected because they grow in fields. We don't tissue culture corn and beans, its just not cost effective. What is wrong with the owner of a bog putting that bog into a harvesting routine and sell the plants produced? This method keeps plants growing in the bog at different stages producing many different ages of bulbs for resale.
I am not for poaching plants. I am saying that it is legal for people to turn a naturally occurring bog into productive land or otherwise. They do this by either filling in the bog or turning the bog into a renewable source of income by selling field cultivated plants.
For me to visit the nursery it would be 408.8 miles, 8 hours 12 min one way. Possible on a weekend.
This quote is taken from the Carnivorous Plant Discussion board in regards to field collecting (should be called poaching). http://www.ourcpsite.com/wwwboard/messages/452.html
|I have heard this too, but alot of the people complaining feel that *any* field collecting should be illegal. I think that more than half their(Peter Paul's) troubles are with over-zealous ultra environmentalists.[/QUOTE]|
ICPS only has two posts in the archives about Peter Pauls. None stating problems.
Wed, 11 Aug 1999
[snip] They get it [ sphagnum moss ]from a bog there in Canadiagua. There's another privately
owned bog in Mendon, NY where some collecting is allowed, if you are
willing to seed the collecting site. The Mendon bog is open to the
public, but monitored. The Canadaigua bog is not accessible to the
public, nor university students, except by special arrangement. I
have seen a lot of anger here about using natural bogs as plant
sources. While I don't want any more of them drained, I think that
using them for cp production is a way to keep the private owners
interested in maintaining them. If Peter pauls couldn't use private
bogs, I KNOW the Canadaigua one would have been drained for mosquito
control in '72. As it has been, several privately owned bogs generate
money for their owners, and have survived development.
I'm a conservationist. BUT first, I'm realistic. New York State has
thousands of bogs, and the state is not going to buy nor manage them