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Martial arts

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Does anyone here take internal martial arts?
 
yup, I do Long Fei Tai Chi, others previously. Also do energy healing.
 
I'd love to get into internal martial arts, but I can't seem to find the time. I was thinking about taking Aikido, wich is kind of a mix between internal and external I think. Do you use the skills you've learned for fighting?
 
it is very applied, lots of self defence applications, and you can use in combat.
 
When you say internal arts.... are you referring to martial arts in general or specific Internal Chi Kung?

You can practice Chi Kung on it's own for health purposes (soft Chi Kung) or for martial applications (hard Chi Kung - Iron Palm, Iron Fist, Iron Body, etc.).

Other "internal styles" in Kung Fu include all branches of Tai Chi (Sun, Yang, Chen, Wutang, etc.), Hsing-I, and Bagua Zhang (those are all I can think of at the moment). Many external Kung Fu styles include hard chi kung which supplement their specific strengths.

Wow... I'm talking about Kung Fu on a plant forum. Go figure.

Gardenofeden, can you explain to me the core philosophy that distinguishes Long Fei Tai Chi from the other branches? I've never encountered this branch...
 
I mainly know about ba gua and Hising-I, but I really don't know much about the many branches of martial arts. I've read about internal martial arts, and their enphasis on the use of chi. I was just wondering if anyone has experience with studying the use of chi in combat, and using chi to motivate your movements, and deliver greater power to them. I actualy hope to study ba gua someday.
 
OOOh, OOOh! martial arts subject!! I gotta get in on this!!
I study Kickboxing (very not-internal) and Kenpo Karate. Kenpo is also a rather hard style, but internal or "soft" elements can be incorporated, depending on the practioner. Usually, though, I would consider it a hard, explosive style.
 
Nathaniel,

All chinese martial arts have both an internal and external component (if the Master truly learned the system). Most of the "hard" styles of kung fu focuses on the external first before turning internal. Soft styles is opposite to that, focusing on the internal first before going external. Either way, if you fully master any style of kung fu, you will have both the internal and external (again, if the master himself has fully achieved it himself). So it depends on which side of the scale you want to begin. If you start with Bagua, then the emphasis is on internal first before external.

As for using chi to affect movement and power, you're now talking about push hand and sticky hand exercises (not just limited to tai chi or wing chun - but also preying mantis, choi lay fut, and hung gar). These exercises teach sensitivity to your opponent's movements. The more you practise, the better you get at "predicting" an attack so that you can counter. Controlling your opponents balance also is important. As explained by a Tai Chi and Push Hands master I talked to earlier this year, think of plate mail armor. When it's erect and upright, not much can penetrate it, but once it's bent and twisted, weak points are exposed. The human body is similar that when a person is in control of their centre of gravity, the body is aligned and stable in structure. Once centre of gravity is lost, everything is out of alignment and many weak points are exposed. Any damage taken at this time is actually multiplied and more damaging than if the body was in alignment.

I've heard of stories where masters can project their chi "outwards". In most cases, from what I've witnessed, they're usually kinetic tricks but are still effective in battle and can be very damaging (and still takes many years to master). An example of this is Iron Palm. The apparent damage seen by an Iron Palm is broken bones and muscle/ tissue damage, but actually, the force continues through and damages the internal organs. Sometimes, the result is immediately noticed... other times, it could take a couple of days.

Charles
 
Schloaty,

Your absolutely right... any "soft training" would definitely add to a hard style. It'll give the practicer that extra "umph".

Depending on the lineage of the Kempo you study, it could be chinese in origin. The closer your Kempo is to it's relative chinese origin, the easier (and seamlessly) it is to incorporate chi kung into the regiment.
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  • #10
Cchang,
The kenpo (with an "n", not "m"...I think Kempo is Japanese, with swords or something...not sure) I study is Ed Parker's American Kenpo. I think the real origin is Chinese, but it went through Japan and Hawaii first, and there is a lot of phillipino influence....I think Ed Parker had learned Kali or Arnis too, so he put that in the system also.
 
  • #11
Sorry about that typo... the japanese way of the sword is Kendo and if I'm not mistaken, you can use Kenpo and Kempo interchangably. I've seen both so I'm not sure what to think now. Either way sorry about the spelling, I should have picked it up in your last post. Didn't mean to offend.

I know of Ed Parkers American Kenpo. He studied with Bruce Lee and because of that, the system is very much a mixed style. Sensei Parker (is that how you address him?) is also very well aquinted with Dan Inosanto and that's probably where the Arnis comes into play. The system is well rounded and has much to offer in terms of martial skill. The Arnis and Kali definitely fits in well with Kenpo's inherent speed. I use to dabble in Arnis/Kali and still do in the odd seminars but I've got way too much on my plate with Kung Fu itself.
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  • #12
Sweet, I love the Martial Arts. As I have been taking it for years. I have been taking Kissaki-Kai for the past couple years. A modifation of shotokan karate. I also do Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Back in 1998 I stayed a week in LA at the Gracie Dojo - an awsome place to be. Did 30 hours of training
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I had burns all over. I LOVED IT!!! Nice to see some Martial Artist at PFT...I knew that schloaty took some. I was wondering what kind you were taking. Kickboxing would be nice as I have long legs.

travis
 
  • #13
cchang
here is a link Long Fei
we do quite a mix some Sun, Chang etc, a mix of hard and soft, lots of sword work. I haven't been doing this style very long so cannot elaborate. Our instructor is very good at self defence applcations which is my favourite. I have also studied Lau Gar & Wu Shu Kwan before, which are external styles.
 
  • #14
CChang, you didn't offend  
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  No harm, no foul.  I've never seen my style spelled with an "m" (I've been practicing for 12 years), so I tend to think Kempo is a different style.  Too bad no-one here takes it so they could clarify.  I'd look it up on the internet, but I'm too lazy.  
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Travis
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kickboxing would be nice as I have long legs.
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you'd think so, right?  Turns out most kickboxers punch each other a lot more than kick.  Even the greats, like Bill "Superfoot" wallace mostly punched (just look out if he decides to kick&#33
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.  Within the confines of American kickboxing (no leg kicks), kicking is too tireing and too easy to defend against.  VERY satisfying when you sneak on in, though!  
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If you do Mui-tae (tai? I forget), and are allowed to kick the legs, kicking becomes much more realavent.  Anyhow, enough philibuster for one post.....
 
  • #15
OOh, I've heard of muy-thai (spelled something like that). It's an external martial art from Thailand, with a lot of use of kicking, isn't it?
 
  • #16
Muay Thai Kickboxing is probably the most brutal sport I've seen around next to all these mixed martial arts competition.  They practically train themselves into the ground and their intensity and dedication is just unbelievable.  Then again, to become a National Muay Thai Champion in Thailand is like becoming a God.

The professional lifespan of a Muay Thai kickboxer (if you train like they do in Thailand) is 2 - 3 years max before they begin to feel the effects of their training techniques catch up to them.  You're looking at long term damage to ligaments and tendons (osteoarthritis and joint pain especially when older).  This is where chi kung comes in handy.  By systematically developing the "iron leg", you protect yourself from these long term effects with the same end result.  But then, most Muay Thai Kickboxers don't have an hour a day for 3 years to spend on chi kung.

Of course anybody training in Muay Thai Kickboxing doesn't have to punish themselves to that level to learn to defend themselves.  Maybe halfway could do?

Schloaty is absolutely right on the kicking Travis...
In all martial arts, there are a myriad of kicks which can be categorized by low, mid and high.  75% of the time, the most effective kicks are low (below the waistline).  20% are mid level (between waist and solar plexus).  Only 5% are effective above the solar plexus.  It takes too much energy to lift your leg that high and also it's too far of a distance to move, allowing your opponent to "read" you.  Of course, if you can bring your opponent down first, it would make things a lot easier to kick to their head.  I'm strictly talking about self defence application here.  At a competitive level, I don't know of one organization that allows you to kick below the waistline.

So why do we train high kicks?  For flexibility and in case we are able to sneak one in, but you have to be really sneaky about it and the risk factor is often very great.

I apologize for taking so much space in this forum... martial arts is my #1 passion... CP's #2.  I literally, eat, breath and crap martial arts, it's not funny... but it's very satisfying.

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  • #17
I think kicks are good if you know how to use them. Usually in full contact I kick to the legs to keep the opponent away. I am not much for highflying kicks - I would rather punch or take someone to the ground depending on the situation. The only kick I do not care for is the hook kick in tournaments...
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Well that is martial arts - it is a contact sport. To know how to use kicks properly adds another aspect to your fighting skills.

travis

The best thing about martial arts is you can talk smack...and then be friends afterwards.
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  • #18
Gotta agree with cchang. Those Mui Thai guys are nuts. I knew a guy (American, if you can beleive it) who was one of those mui thai guys that kicks a steel pole to deaden his shins. Yikes. The difference between him and the Tailan fighters is (usually) thailand fighter are small. This guy (Chris) is BIG. I've seen him fold a banana bag IN HALF with a thai round house.
I take a much more moderate approach. I just spar, hit the bag, and train in technique. Toughness comes with time. I don't plan on getting in the ring, and fighting for several rounds (I can though. I sparred 6 rounds last night. ) If I have to defend myself, it won't last more than 30 seconds....if the mugger is good. Defense asside, I just like to practice...it's theraputic
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  • #19
I agree schloaty and cchang people that do Mui Thai are crazy. I perfer to walk out normal than limping around
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travis
 
  • #20
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I perfer to walk out normal than limping around .
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No kidding, Travis. After all, what's the point of learning self defense if you're always to messed up to use it?

"Hey, Mr. Mugger, please come back next week. I need to heal before I can beat you up..."


yeah, right.
 
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