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Thread: Fungi

  1. #9
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    Angry

    My analogy with medicine and fungicides was to prove a point.

    I agree we as a culture are breeding out strains of bugs that will eventually kill us again like they did 500 years ago.

    My point is, you have no idea what someone calls 'mold' or 'fungus'.

    You only know that YOU think it is being overused.

    Until you can really see what the problem is, then a general antidote is a broad spectrum fungicide that will help the plant.

    I hate to use any kind of chemical to rid things, but sometimes there isn't a better alternative...so what do you do?

    Is it not that people do or do not agree with you and what you are saying...what is the problem is that you are offering advice with little knowledge of the true problem...and the answer has constantly been 'God, do you have use a fungicide? That is a pet peeve of mine' [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/img]

    What you are proposing is a symbiotic relationship with plants and fungus that has yet to be fully studied. ( in CP's )

    So it is theory. I am sure that there is something that goes on with CP's and fungus ( it has to, look at their environment ), but no one has put forth the effort to see what strains are beneficial for the plant and what are harmful.

    I feel that you have totally missed the points that were being made about treatment of things for plants.

    As I am sure that we all understand your side ( because I truly do ) I am not sure you are looking at the same picture we are.

    Also, try and remember that not everyone is an aspiring Bio-student, and they are just getting into the collecting plants. For many people, this is their first plant, or they have tried in the past and have killed them. Granted there are many ways to kill a plant, we have to be able to help out in what ever form or fashion we feel is right.

    Being also that this is a beginner site, most people don't know, or just discovered that there are more types of CP's other than VFT's.

    Things have to be done in small steps. It helps our short sided minds to think better and to try and see the big picture.

    In time, we get to the bulb=rhizome, pesticides should only be applied when...You can use predatory nematodes to rid your soil of fungus gnats WITHOUT a pesticide...

    There are many things to learn...and we are working very hard on them. That is why a place like this is important. It will yield the next crop of people that will be carrying the CP torch after we die.

    Thanks for the insult, and thanks for being an active and participating member of this forum.

  2. #10
    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    Jeese, you guys are going to be hard to follow, but I'll try.

    Darcie, it was not my intent to be disrespectful to you or rude, if that is how I came across in my posts I apologize, but as RamPuppy stated, you were going against what I know to be beneficial to my plants. I think that many will agree with you that fungicide can be overused, but when it comes to dormancy, I think of it as an inoculation against bad fungus. Just like a flu shot. You don't wait 'till you have the flu to get one. You get one before you get the flu. That is the only time I use a fungicide when I don't see a fungus problem.

    RamPuppy and Jaie have covered everything and said it better than I could so I won't repeat it except for Jaie's last words: thanks for being an active and participating member of this forum.
    ---Steve Allinger---

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  3. #11

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    Wink

    I did not want to insult anyone. I'm sorry. I wanted to discuss fungi observations not get into an argument. I'm sorry [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img]
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
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  4. #12

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    Still, she has a point. I've been growing cps for two years, and have not once used a fungicide or lost a plant to fungus. Of course, I don't have lids on any of my terrariums, for air circulation. In my opinion, the stuff is extremely overused. I suppose for low air circulation terrariums, or dormancy in a fridge, it is neccessary though. The reason everyone uses so much fungicide is obvious though - the few fungus that are dangerous can create problems very quickly, and some are devastating.

  5. #13
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    Everyone...

    I am not disagreeing with the fact that there is beneficial mold, fungus for plants.

    I am not disagreeing that there is an overuse of fungicides and medications...

    My point is:

    1) Without truly knowing the type of mold, fungus someone has on their plants, there is no true way of saying, Yes you need something, no you don't.

    What I purpose is that when someone mentions a ' I have a mold or fungus question', we respond with 'what type of mold, describe it..color, texture anything that can help establish if it is harmful or helpful.

    Like I have mentioned to others before, I have green fuzzy moss growing in a lot of my personal collection..I know that it is not harmful to my plants ( unless it is seedlings or something trying to establish itself )...I even have a grayish color mold that is on the soil of some of my Sarracenia...I know this also doesn't harm my plants...

    But what I think are issues with other people's situations are:

    1) the mold is like a green slime
    2) rotting from poor light, or bad water
    3) keeping plants in an air tight container ( which most people; including myself, feel is a no no )

    We all know that warm, stagnant air will breed mold...we also know that it not enough light will do it as well...and even still, we know that using the wrong water will also cause a problem.

    What is most bothersome to me, is that instead of a 'describe your problem, what are your conditions', it has recently become, 'I don't have that problem', 'I never use that stuff', 'Why is everyone on a fungicide trip' ( not quoting, paraphrasing ).

    What we need to do; those of us that either consider ourselves 'expert, expierenced, whatever the adjective', is try and understand that for many, this is their first plant...this is a beginner site, not many people truly understand the workings on nature, and WE need to be teachers... Not lecture ( I am not saying anyone has ), but teach...explain why something isn't right, provide alternative methods for handling a problem...ask for a more detailed assesment of the situation before snapping up a cause.

    This will not only help YOU ( that means all of us ), that will also help the person with the problem that we desperately want to fix! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Also, understand that I HATE to use any kind of chemical on anything!! This is more so the case with plants....I will try and find any other method I can to fix a problem...I will scrape something off the top, I will get beneficial bugs, I will use alcohol and a q-tip, something, ANYTHING that will not harm my plant, and the environment. I also understand that using something NOT for its intended use will breed resistant strains of molds, fungus, bacteria...

    So I DO understand the points that have been made in favor for NOT using a pesticide or fungicide...

    But what I ask is that you look at the other side of the coin...think about what it would be like if you just got your first plant ( doesn't even have to be carnivorous ), and you have something that isn't suppose to be there in it or on it!?!?!?! What would you do, say, feel.

    Now, ask yourself, I am the one with the answer..I know what to do... How do you say it? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    See the point?

    We are all here to learn, have fun and make some new friends... Discussions are fun, it makes people think, it helps us all to learn...but in order to 'give something ( as in a thought ),' You have to be able to accept with an open mind the responses...

    I am truly sorry for being a punk [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] You have to understand my bottom line...I am here to help. This forum is here to help. I cannot tell you how much time I spend on helping others...The time I take to go and give lectures. The time to sit with someone on the phone for 30 minutes to ease their mind or just give them some ideas, the AIM conversations that I have, or the emails that I respond to daily [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] It is in my nature to want to do good, and this place has allowed me to do so!

    When I see things that mind you DO make sense, but are provided in a way that may be misleading to someone, or may confuse someone that is already confused...I HAVE to step up and try and sort it all out.

    Everyone is here to learn...and I am still learning too!! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] We cannot allow ourselves to become stagnant, we will never grow.

    Not to sound corny or mushy, but I TRULY LOVE YOU ALL!!! I have made so many friends and shared so many things..it is unimaginable...I never thought that I could be so involved in something like this.

    So more than anything, this is like a child ( these forums ), and I only want what is best for him/her. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #14

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    Well put, i should have said something like that in regards to the oposit problem that set me off. We should also ask for details befor saying use fingiside whenever someone says, "help my plant is dieing" because as we have recently seen, mites and insects can also be a big problem.

    Everyones coments have attually given me more data to work with and here is my interpritation of stuff combined with past knowledge and a few new factoids.

    1) In a given forest of Oak, 200+ types of fungi are symbiotic with the Oak. Each oak will have about 100+ types living with it. In other words, plants have a heck of a lot of good fungi to choose from.

    2) Good fungi can go bad, if a plant is weakend from something and is dieing, the fungi may end up recycling it as it dies, but is not the attual cause of death, so look for other problems when fungi goes nuts (granted you should get the fungi under control too).

    3) Sterilizing soil won't do much if you have bad fungi spoors in the air. If you have had outbreaks of killer fungi, then the use of fungiside during dormency may be needed, but if you have never had evil fungi outbreaks, and you don't have new plants or soil, those bad spoors probubly aren't around enough to warrent precautionary fungiside use.

    4) Fungi spoors are everyware all over the world and because they are so mobile, they spred about the glob quickly in potted plants. Fungi will also "hook up with" any plant that offers them a home. This sagest that regardless of the the type of plant, or it's location, a good spore will eventually land in the soil and hang out with the plant.

    5) Bad spoors can also make their way into a potted plant for the same reson good ones can, but because good fungi will often fight off bad fungi and because only about 1% of the fungi out their is truely bad, bad spoors should not be overly feared untill a problem orrises

    6) the best way to prevent fungi from attacking your plants is probubly to quarenteen new soil/plants for about a month. Quarenteening should inclued an air filter ina room very very far from other plants. If the spooring part of the fungi should suddenly appear or a plant start to droop, get the plant away from others. Once the spooring part is visable, THEN fungiside the snot out of it befor it can release the spoors. This way you get rid of the bad fungi but have time to make sure that really is the problem.

    7) Large collections are more likely to become contaminated with an evil fungi and should be watched more carefully. Small collections probubly will be okay as long as they never meet another infected plant.

    8) Not really related, but sort of cool, the often consitted bad fungi that rots out old trees is not attually bad. It is the tree's symbiot removing the center of the tree to make it more flexable in it's bulk. As the fungie removes the core, many stimulaye the tree to grow roots inside it's hollow area which give new plastic support and can reuse the food from the center. The hollow area also attracts animals which leave their fecies in the the center roots right where the tree can reach them. So, when you get right down to it, these fungi's still help the tree, it just looks odd to use!


    Overall, I think reserch, information and sound judgement are whats really needed to better controle these relationships. I propose we begin takeing photoes of out fungi coverd plants and lableing them as did no damage, did damage. I will be willing to collect such images and place them on a website to pool information. While a good and bad fungi could look the same, this methoid may be able to give new and old growers alike a better chance at rating their surrent situation and what it calls for [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    -Darcie

    P.S. This is my long term goal, to help everyone get a grip on what to do thats best for their plant without waiting till it's to late, killing something good or taking samples of fungi to a lab [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
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  7. #15

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    I would say that 90% of the time if you get a fungus outbreak then you need to look at you culturing method. Too much humidity, not enough light, not enough air circulation, ect, things like that could all be problems. Can't fix the problem? Maybe you should just grow another type of plant or even look for a nursery with more vigorous plants (I'm not trying to imply anything with that). In the long run this will fix the problem(s) instead of curing the symptoms.

  8. #16

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    The fungus outbreaks that are most common with carnivorous plant growers, are for the most part, bad. I don't know the statistics, it appears as though you do, with all your research, but even if only twenty five percent of fungi species were bad, who is to say that that twenty five percent is not more prolific, numerous, or procreates so quickly that by it's sheer numbers, outweighs the amount of good fungi that we'll come into contact with

    I'm really having trouble articulating exacly what I mean, but I hope my message has been conveyed properly enough for you to understand what I mean...

    The fungus we attack with chemicals is usually the kind that destroys our plants...

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