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Thread: Spamming at gardenweb

  1. #25

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    It looks like there was a falling out between **********s.com and GardenWeb. That is still no excuse for the spam attacks on GardenWeb. It looks to me that GardenWeb had no choice but to install a spam filter to protect themselves.

    Unfortunately, it looks like some people were banned from GardenWeb because they were innocent victims of the spam drive-by shootings.

    >you might want to mention to him that it is illegal for him to monitor (even by proxy) the content of email between people the same way it is illegal to open and read someone elses mail.

    If that is the case, then the spam filters used by most of the other ISP's such as AOL, Earthlink and hotmail are illegal as well.

    Ron

  2. #26
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    Hey all, man, for some reason this is one of my favorite topics. Maybe a small piece of me thrives on conflict or something... so sad.

    I wanted to re-iterate a couple points here:

    It IS absolutely illegal to scan someones e-mail, unless you are A) the federal government or B) an employer who believes the employee is breaking trust. And even B has it's consequences.

    You may all remember my sig a while back referred to a game called Masters of Orion 3 or moo3.com. now, there is a board where discussion not only gets out of hand, but sometimes down right insulting! the game community is very unhappy with how development is going, and they are posting blatantly about this to the developer, who takes it in stride, and responds where they can. The point is, they are taking the criticism.

    I was banned the first time from Gardenweb, not because I posted **********s name, but because I wrote spike a letter telling him what I thought of his policies. He had a chance to respond, explain to me why they were good polocies, but rather chose to simply ban me from the forums. That is fine, I really don't care, but it shows you his level of committment to his users. He considers every person there to be 'throw away, expendable, replaceable'.

    I have met few people in my life I actually just plain don't like. Spike is one of them, and it wasn't even until I heard that he was fond of comparing a reference to ********** as akin to flying a plane load of people into buildings with thousands of people.

    TO do so is so ardently disrespectful to those that had their lives stolen from them that it makes me sick to my stomach. I am a very patriotic individual, I come from a military family, and while I was not able to serve in the military for genetic reasons (asthma and the arches in my feet) I cling proudly to the tradition that my father served our country in.

    It just really really gets to me when people don't understand the sacrifices made so that we can have places like this, our free speech (And most free speech in the world it could be argues) was bought with the blood of americans. That is not to say America fought everyones revolutions, and won them, but certainly a very large number of countries were inspired by the example that america puts forward, our constitution has been copied by many governments.

    Any how... I guess my point is this: If I had never been banned for telling spike what I thought, for writing '**********' on his boards, if I had never done anything but had a great time on gardenweb I would still have asked for my account to be deleted because of that particular commentary. It speaks to the total lack of honor, charachter, and respect that is involved witht he people that run that site, and I would want nothing to do with it.

    </End Rant> Done with my commentary here I think! [img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

  3. #27
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    If you had just used a few simple sentences, and hadn't made is to long and spam-like, I think it would have been OK.[/QUOTE]

    In this case it would not have been. Spike's reason for terminating the post and banning the member was because the post was not "discussion oriented. This forum is for discussion only."

    Quote
    It looks like there was a falling out between **********s.com and GardenWeb. That is still no excuse for the spam attacks on GardenWeb.[/QUOTE]

    Yes there was a huge falling out (a whole other story and not my place to tell it.) And you are absolutly right that it isn't an excuse to spam attack. But by the same token it is not an excuse for Spike to terminate anyone who mentiones PFT reguardless of context. If I say "Hey, I know a guy at PFT who grows that plant successfully. you might want to try contacting him." that isn't spam, that is just a statment of fact.

    Quote
    It looks to me that GardenWeb had no choice but to install a spam filter to protect themselves.[/QUOTE]

    Again, protecting themselves is one thing, terminating anyone because they mention PFT is somthing else entirely.

    Quote
    Unfortunately, it looks like some people were banned from GardenWeb because they were innocent victims of the spam drive-by shootings.[/QUOTE]

    This maybe the case but Spike should consider this and not consider someone immediately guilty (innocent until proven guilty is the way it tends to work.) He might also want to consider being civilized when a person asks why they were banned instead of assaulting them with profanity and damning them as terrorists. JMHO

    I still don't see how what I did is classified as spam and it still rubs me the wrong way that I was treated the way I was.

    Quote
    If that is the case, then the spam filters used by most of the other ISP's such as AOL, Earthlink and hotmail are illegal as well.[/QUOTE]

    I'm just going off what I was told by the FCC, and it is entirly possible that they are wrong.

    And if Spkies filter is good enough to grab every post that has any mention of PFT or anything like it then he might want to sell it to other ISPs because reams of spam still get past my hotmail filters. [img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Pyro

  4. #28
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    The last person ( well I don't think he was the last ) was banned for trying to get people to openly trade what they have, to repopulate colonies of plants among growers.
    It was a plea for us all to do something more.

    No where in his writing was he 'spamming' or soliciting something.

    The response he received from the members ( that are left ) at GW and the owners to me was rude, inconsiderate, abusive, stupid ( I can go on and on with adjectives ).

    People didn't trust what he was saying nor did they even read it all.

    So amazing, he posts the post here, and the response was tremendous. So overwhelming with love and support, we are now in the process of offering a free seedbank ( which is coming in a few months ).

    That is spamming? There is your difference between GW and PFT. Respect does not exsist on that site. Nor does the mind of treating people the right way.

    I believe that you are missing the point on the 'spamming' thing. Actually you have missed the point.

    What happened ( and I thinik that we all agree it wasn't right ) was a result of member after member being banned form that site. For little or no reason. At times for mentioning our name at other times for trying to GIVE AWAY FREE SEED!

    These 'spam filters' were already in place months in not a year before this 'drive by spam attack'

    Once this falling out had taken place between us and GW, **********.com was no longer able to be used on that site.

    Why don't you go through the site and find for me those words. I bet you cannot find it one time. Not by me, or any other user.

    The casual mention of a site for reference I feel shouldn't be grounds for banning, and the after comparison to terrorist.

    I don't want my site mentioned on Gardenweb. I want nothing to do with Spike, or anyone that wants to play sides and most of all feel that they are right for treating people in such a manner.

    This issue will only get worse, it will not get better. And as people start to find out these are the practices of GW and not PFT, you will see that this is the better place.

  5. #29
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Ram,

    Thank you, you managed to jog my brain in just the right way. I have been trying to put it into words in my head but have failed until now.

    Spike's comparing me to to the 9/11 terrorists positivly disgusted me. Saying that, by offering someone help as to where they can get information, puts me on the level of killing 3000+ people goes beyond absurd. It is complete and total STUPIDITY and goes beyond calling me (or anyone for that matter) a Nazi.

    That is why I feel so strongly about this and I can not think of a single thing that would make me change my mind.

    Pyro

  6. #30

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    >It IS absolutely illegal to scan someones e-mail, unless you are A) the federal government or B) an employer who believes the employee is breaking trust. And even B has it's consequences.

    So what you are saying is that it is illegal to have spam filters because spam filters scan email messages? If this is true, then most of the Internet providers such as AOL, hotmail and Earthlink are doing illegal scanning of the email. Is this correct?

    Ron

  7. #31
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    NO, I guess I wasn't clear.

    When you 'send' an e-mail through gardenweb to someone a couple things happen. Even though you write the message in a web interface, YOUR personal e-mail account is attatched to it, and it is sent to your recipients PERSONAL e-mail account.

    Point of origin on private messages does NOT give you the right to scan a message for spam, for instance, if I were to write an e-mail using a hotmail account, even though all the mail transactions are being handled by their server Hotmail does NOT have the right to scan my e-mail for content. They CAN check to see if I am sending it to 50,000 people without invading private content, that is fine. But what is happening here is not scanning for SPAM, it is more akin to a prison opening an inmates mail. Last I checked, none of us were gardenweb convicts. THey simply don't have the right under the law to scan e-mail based posts.

    They can scan what goes up on their public boards to their hearts content, all perfectly legal. I do not have a problem, nor does anyone here I think, witht he fact that after the 'drive by spamming' gardenweb went in and removed every reference to **********. They should have and did do the right thing in that instance. (As much as I don't like it)

    However as has been stated before, the mention of ********** was banned BEFORE any drive by spamming, ********** was banned because Spike for some reason doesn't like two of the nicest guys I like, Phil and jEf,f owners of **********. ********** is a competitor, the only other viable commercial cp operation that offers forums, and those forums steal his business, i.e. spike no likey. It is realyl quite simple.

    Look at it this way, there are a lot of other plant nurseries out there that are allowed to be mentioned on gw, and the posts are not removed. why do they remove ********** posts (BEFORE) the 'drive by spamming'? simple, the reasons stated above.

    That fact can not be worked around, circumvented, or challenged in any way. It's simple. CAUSE AND EFFECT. the use of the words ********** were banned, a members private e-mail was scanned, delivery most likely stopped, and the user banned, and then an outcry of public support for that banned member which unfortunately took the shape of a 'drive by spamming'. the issues that all of us have with Gardenweb come from BEFORE all of this.

    Heck, this forum became REALLY REALLY ACTIVE because Phil, Jeff, and myself went out and hunted down the people that had been banned from GW for offering freee seed, discussing trades, and linking to ********** over a YEAR ago. Many of the core members here, peopel who helped pump this forum into the giant it is today, are all 'garden web rejects.'

    And let me point something else out... You can take it to heart that our feelings for gardenweb are all in the past, prior to our very public show of support for Pyro, because at this given moment in time, I dont think very many of us give a flying flip about spike and his forums. I check in every month or so just to see how slow things have really gotten. It would take Garden Web a YEAR to accumulate a weeks worth of posts on **********. The place is history, spike ran off most of his users, and has only himself to blame for it.

    Now, not to sound like a ********** propoganda merchant, but plain and simple, this place is the future of Carnivorous Plants, it is the only CP nursery I know of that makes regular donations for CP habitat restoration and protection. It has a vibrant and growing community, and a web presence, that quite frankly, blows away every one else, sure, there are other great nurseries out there, and many of us like them, they are guys and gals who sell their plants and make a good living off something they love, and that is GREAT, but ********** strives to be more, we want to tell the WORLD about these plants, we want to make as many species available to everyone as we can, all in a very responsible manner.

    Moreover, we want to share that information as freely as possible, and it is that very thing that makes this place great, the fact that anyone can come here, and within 24 hours, almost every single time have a high quality answer to their questions, that they can come here and be a part of a community, a family if you will, of people who plain and simple love these plants, not how much is made off the advertising banners on their site.

    I think that pretty much covers it.

  8. #32

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    WTF? If you don't like the way things are run here then AMF. Some people are just bad news man. I guess I'm not sure why we're spending so much time on history rather than current events.

    Edit: Diplomacy is not my strong suit...


    (Edited by Dyflam at 3[img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]9 pm on April 17, 2002)

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