George W bush...

[PooPHeaD]

it really makes me sad that we have a president that is promoting logging in our national forests.... for a reason such as Quote on him " Logging will promote less under growth, and lower forest fire levels" Yah... right... from what i have seen here in Indiana Logging in dense forests just promotes under growth. The devistation that logging does is horrible... it really is... i live in the forest.. and out neighbors are in the process of logging.. it is so horrible, they wanted to thin the trees out to promote the Hardwood tree's growth, but ya they did just that, but they destroyed the forest around the trees and made it now a woods... but it is no matter to me, w still have our forest, and all the life will move to our side.. but what we need is an environmentalist for a president for once... as for it is quite sad, watching our country forest deminish... sigh...

Cya laters
Jim

 

[Travis]

I am not saying environmentalists are bad but I think some cutting is good. I am totally against clear-cutting that is not right.  But we need to thin some of our forest because what happens as years go by there is so much under growth that it becomes fuel. Since people want to live in the woods (urban sprawl) and not in the city, if a forest fire starts we need to put it out so houses will not burn.  Years back forest fires would burn for days or weeks whipping out the thick forest. Now that people live in the woods, we can not have that happen the fire need to be put out.  I can not tell you how much I hate "URBAN SPRAWL"

!!! I believe if you want to live in the forest - better be prepared to have your house burn to the ground.

Just think when one person puts a trail in the forest it is there for decades.  From that you change the whole chemistry of the forest.  You end up with vegetation dyeing around the road - then the vegetation changes into something else. Once there is road, people will come. Once there are people, the forest gets hacked (houses). Then that leads to putting out forest fires (normally forest fires clear out the thick vegetation) but "US HUMANS" put it out. Then next year it gets thicker, and thicker, and thicker. Then the forest is so thick it is also most impossible to put out a forest fire. Now we are playing "Mother Nature" by cutting some of the forest. Thanks to years of saving the forest from fires - now we need to save houses...

Here is a link to a web site about urban sprawl:

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~pppm/landuse/sprawl.html
http://www.limitlesscity.com/

There are many web-sites I just chose two. So basically what I am saying is we would not have this problem if people would live cities and stay out of the woods.

Again these are my opinions...
travis

pardon the wording I am to lazy to correct it.

 

[timbudtwo]

Just give bush a break. Okay hes not the smartest guy. Not everybody likes Him. But he is trying his best.

 

[carniverous newbie]

I may not be American, but I watched the election closely...and I have to admit, I was rooting for Bush. Although now I'm starting to wonder! I mean, I think he's one of the most popular Presidents' in awhile, and he's been doing his best to handle the 9 / 11 disaster. But if anyone believes in what the Bible has to say...Revelations does speak of the "Anti-Christ" who will be voted into power, and will be the most loved and popular, and he will start the joinging of a "one-world government" and so-on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's the anti-christ or anything! I amd just starting to wonder about his power and popularity...

 

[Travis]

Bush is Bush...I am not ragging on our President (he is not great/he is not bad either).

travis

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

Travis on Aug. 22 2002,6:13
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">....So basically what I am saying is we would not have this problem if people would live cities and stay out of the woods.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree somewhat. I think a big part of the problem is that people saw fire as a bad thing, not as one of Mother Natures ways of doing some house cleaning. Therefor, we put out fires before they had a chance to spread and clear out the underbrush. Now, as you pointed out, because of this over protectiveness, the underbrush is so dense in places that when it does go, there is no stopping it. And instead of just burning out the underbrush and a few trees, they burn so hot they kill everything, including seeds in the suface of the soil.
This is what happened in Yellowstone 10 (?) years ago and in the Hayden fire this year in Colorado. It's only been in the last 15 years (thats a guestimate) that the forest service has been doing control burns to minimize the potential for a bad forest fire to get started.

And I think people who live in amongst the trees and don't take the precautions needed to protect their house and property, shouldn't be outside their parents house without the proper adult supervision

. I am dismayed at where people are building house around here. They are slowly eroding the natural areas away.

 

[PooPHeaD]

I gave my time to think over my feelings on the subject, and now i feel the same way as travis does, even though i live in the middle of the forest, but to me i feel that i belong in the forest, instead of out on concrete and back top, surrounded my immense stone towers, i feel that rooted wood in the firm soil, brings so much harmony to myself, i used to love ove rviewing the valley that was our neighbors, and now i cant stand the look of the devistation that has fallen upon it, all the memories of wlkaing aournd the hill sides of the steep banks finding various conopy floor plants, and most of them had very nice floral patterns to them, and now i suppose they will die as for the increment in light levels... it really depresses me, and to think that bush is going to allow logging in our forest reserves! it is insane... and all to saddening... i really wish sometimes we could all go back to the mid evil times*oppinion* or at least find some other alternative to so to say being one with nature we need better ways to live, instead of invade,settle, an populize.. if oyu knwo what i mean... if any one has seen Star Wars Ep 1, i forgot the name of the planet, but i believe we are doomed to become the planet that was an entire city... with a populaiton of Beings, and the abolishment of Other life... But that will be out of my time and i will not have to endure the time of seeign that day, that also leads me into another subject, i love technology, but i hate destructive technology, the worse thing we created is the Atomic Bombs, although i am no genius and i myself could not have thought of any other way to settle the disagreements that japan and hitler... but these are all my oppinions, but i would say there could most indefinetely could have been another way, instead of death and destruction, but as i think of it now, the situation that we were in, it seems that war was the only choice, unless we wanted to be bullied around... and i do believe there are times when blood shed shoudl be an option, and for me to say that it was the time, at that time to use those methods, is out of my hands... that is to much of a burden for me to carry, Life and Death... but enough with all the talk... all i believe is that we are hurting the earth, but she will take control in time.. it is just a matter of time...

Cya laters
Jim

*oppinions*

 

[PooPHeaD]

Oh and bush, i do believe he is good at handling matters of war, but does a uderly horrible job on thought of our environment, oh and also Well the tragedy of yellow stone, woudl not have happened most likely if wild fires were permited to happen, i believe that most of everything that has happened like that all relates back to us playing Big Bertha Mother Nature and i think playing that role on earth is not supposed to be in our hands, and face it, when playing mother nature we always in time mess up... and make soemthign worse... it disapoints me greatly but Hey what can i Or we do... only live our lives, as we please, right?

Cya laters
Jim

**oppinions**

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

PooPHeaD on Aug. 22 2002,7:15

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all i believe is that we are hurting the earth, but she will take control in time.. it is just a matter of time...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yea, she will have the last word....and I don't think it will be a very nice one for us.....

 

[Travis]

My father lives in the woods, my uncles have a camp in the middle of the woods. I loved living in the woods, it gave me a great sense of what mother nature has given us. I have hunted many back roads. But it disgust me when I see so many new trails being made for homes clear cut for paper mills and other reasons. If I every lived in the woods (First - Get a good job - not saying have a bad one

) you have to take the precautions of having a forest fire. It is just like living near a hurricane zone - people need to understand the risk. Unfortunately you make a trail in the woods it stays for decades.

And yes Bush is not the best environmentalist but there is absolutely no way I am going there...

 

travis

 

[<>-{VIRUS}-<>They]

When will people learn, democracy doesnt work.

 

[schloaty]

BCK,
I was just in Hawaii (as many of you know), and my wife and I went to visit Kilowea (the active volcano on the big island). You are more right than you know with:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yea, she will have the last word....and I don't think it will be a very nice one for us[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You should see what Mother Earth is capable of....

 

[Stefano1]

bush is doing this cus of the fires, but a couple months ago that huge fire that was started by a forest ranger, some lady that wanteed attention and she started the fires


i hate bush, i want clinton back ;[

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

<>-{VIRUS}-<>They on Aug. 22 2002,8:23
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When will people learn, democracy doesnt work.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As far as I can tell no form of goverment is a sure fire thing.  They all get undermined by the greed of the people in power or who want to be in power.  So as long as the human race has people who let their greed rule their deeds, we won't see any governing body that works 100% right 100% of the time.

edited @ 10:O3 8-23-02
As for wanting a president back I just wish we didn't need anyone to represent us.

 

[carniverous newbie]

Well, at least he's not Clinton!  

 ( sorry if that offends any Clinton fans out there! ) Overall, from what I've seen (although I don't have as much an inside scoop as you all do), Bush seems to be doing a fairly good job..at least in those "larger issues" ( which is a matter of what is big to whom however! ). I personally never have and never will have faith in any form of poitics or any form of politicians, fir the same reasons you referred to BigCarnivourKid! They're all ruled by a thirst for power and greed as far as I'm concerned, and under those circumstances, there really will never be any government that works "for the people" in any country.  

 

[PooPHeaD]

I Really Agree with everyones remark in some way, and you all gave me some great material for a speech for english class that i am putting together for the class, thank you all very much, and schloaty welcoeme back! and i love your response to the topic of how mother nature is showing her rage on Kilowea Island, but she is also showing her creative side to her power, as for the volcano made th island, and if people want to live on that island then they will have to live with the danger of having a massive volcanic explosion that could inihilate the whole community, but back to forests... i just read in the paper that there were riots in prtland Oregeon, where GWB was spending the night, sadely the protests must have gotten out of hand and violence came to part... i really dont know why people resort to violence through getting there point across there are so many other ways to make your point become 10x as strong, instead of using violence, and i also have read that signs of life are already coming back to the forest where the fire has ravaged, everything is budding once more, and that makes me happy... but i also read that bush is going to allow 180,000 acres of fire pron national forests to be logged, that is alot.. and it is gonna devistate things, but i also have got soem first hand expereince stories from some Cp person in oregeon that has told me that the loggers are doing a geat jopb at not devistating the forest and they are also reclaiing the trees they cut, which is to some degree a releaf, but he also told me the sad part was that they still are cutting the 300 year old tree's ... the type of tree that shoudl be left aloen to marvel... but anyways, i really wish i coudl get out there and do soemthign abotu this all... but i dont think that, that will happen sigh... oh well

CHEERS!

Cya laters
Jim

 

[venus fly trapper]

thought i am a texan, i kinda regret supporting bush....i only cared about the personality, but not much of their "smartness". gore is definately "smarter" than bush...

as for the logging problem, i kinda agree with bush's idea. at the beginning of the hot season, maybe 1 in 5 trees could be cut down, so that if forest fires occur, they could be put out more easily. also, the other trees that hadnt been cut down, can grow to their maximum size, since the competition of the nutrients in the soil would be less. another idea could be instead of cutting down the trees, if possible, smaller/younger trees with less roots could be unearthed, and replanted in an area in need of reforestation. sounds kinda impossible, but still a good option.

 

[Shauntell]

But the trees aren't what's causing the prolem. It's the underbrush building up from lack of fire. Everything has it's purpose including fire and I wish sometimes we'd just let everything be. Even though I don't even live up to that myself. It's hard. The reason that the underbrush built up here in CO. was because of the wealthy people building houses in the forests complaints of smoke when they did the controlled fires. It's horrible but it actually seems funny to me that they were complaining of smoke and made them stop the controlled fires and now they don't have houses anymore. Not to say taht I want their houses to be gone or for them to suffer, but they got what they were asking for. I think that Bush isn't helping with the logging. That's not the answer in my opinion. I think there should be controlled fires. That's how the earth has been doing it for millions of years and if were gonna insist on doing something we should at least follow in the earths' example. Shauntell

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

I feel sorry for the Forest Service people.  They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.   People chew them out for smoking up the air with control burns and then it's all their fault for not doing something when a wildfire comes through and burns down their homes  

 

.

 

[shut_Your_trap]

I have to agrea with BCK about Forest Service people. Also i wish we had Gore i mean he would be fare and just i cant vote so i dont know if i can talk but i was very upset that Bush we got Bush and not Gore