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Thread: Carnivory...what IS it?

  1. #17

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    HEY!! Let's ease up on the beer. I'm not gettin touchy or anything (maybe a little twitchy from lack of)... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]
    There's a tunnel at the end of the light...

  2. #18
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Micropoop!!! Ewwwwww...I KNEW there was a good reason not to drink beer. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    Well like I said...I'm no scientist or anything but it seems to me a plant that benefits nutritionally, whether by digestive enzyme or bacterial assistance, from catching any kind of livng organism IS carnivorous. So in my m ind, byblis liniflora IS a carnivorous plant. And I don't think strength of enzyme matters. If they "eat", they are carnivorous. I can see the argument against "insectivorous" as they can catch/eat other things like worms (when handfed), small slugs and things like that aren't insects. Or...maybe even a 5-lb squirrel.........(couldn't resist&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] hee [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    I'm sure there are botanists that would shake their heads over my feeble thoughts but I don't care. I love my byblis and its a CP to me...none of this "quasi" stuff.

    However...the "quasi" plants are verrrry interesting. There is debate as to whether the passiflora foetida is carnivorous...it catches (and retains) insects in the feathery bracts surrounding the flower. But no one has established in what way this feature benefits the plant. I'd love to have one any way since I'm a passionflower nut. ( It is mentioned in the CP FAQs at www.sarracenia.com.)

    Suzanne
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  3. #19
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    the only thing i can think of is that when the fruit ripens and falls to the ground, not only does it have the fruit itself to nourish the yound seed, but the decayed husks of all the inescts that were caught in the flower brachts as well...
    \"Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: \"Mankind\". Basically, it\'s made up of two separate words - \"mank\" and \"ind\". What do these words mean ? It\'s a mystery, and that\'s why so is mankind.\" ~ Jack Handey

  4. #20
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Now you done it Ram, you had to pull out the T-rex thing and I just can't hold back [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    T-rex = Predator...umm... Yes. Exclusive predator... Maybe not, but then no predator is. T-rex has the built and body design of a predator. The teeth of T-rex were proportional larger than the teeth of other carnosaurs. The structure of the jaw is designed to allow for the gapping needed to deliver a killing bite and the teeth are serrated and arranged in such a way that, when the came together, they would result in a "cookie cutter" gash being taken from the prey animal. Also, the teeth are not designed for, or structurally capable of, the bone crushing/joint severing force needed by a scavanger. The muscle and bone structure of the head and neck are designed to take the force that would result from a Rex slamming headlong into it's prey and the muscle and ligament attachments in the legs point toward an animal capable of short burts of high speed. And then the largest argument against Rex being a scavenger, its size. It is not possible for so large an animal to survive by scavanging alone.

    Back to the original topic, I don't really care how we define if a plant is really a CP. Are the Darlingtonia and Heliamphora any less interesting because they only use bacteria? I don't think so, I still like them and will still grow them.

    So that is my $1.38 Take it or leave it [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Pyro
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

    See You Space Cowboy

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  5. #21

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    Hey Suzanne,

    You asked me a question so *of course* I have to answer it myself...even if five people have already answered it to some degree. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Basically, carnivorous plants used to be called insectivorous. Because people realized that cp do not eat insects exclusively, 'carnivorous' became more popular, and has stayed that way. If you see people still calling them 'insectivorous,' you know that those people either 1) have not found out that 'carnivorous' is a more appropriate term, or 2) just want to sound different from everyone else, to stand out from the crowd so to speak, or 3) for some reason are referring only to those plants that eat insects, which means that, for some reason, they have excluded Utricularia (utrics eat tiny crustaceans and microbes -- not what you'd consider insects). And yes, then there is the fact that other cp genera will often consume non-insects.

    Chris
    Chris Roy
    Eastern Massachusetts, United States

    I have only made this letter rather long because I have not had time to make it shorter. - Blaise Pascal

  6. #22

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    My point exactly DE, I just wasn't in the mood to write that much, lol.

  7. #23
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    Pyro...

    I'll write more about the T-rex later...

    But here is an interesting dichotomy... you have a agroup of scientists who say that T-Rex was an uber predator (your group) and my group, which says he was an opportunist, probably capable of eating smaller animals in a gulp.

    so here's the catch... you say his teeth aren't designed to crush bone... I can buy that, however, there is the fact that tests have shown the roots of his teeth were to shallow to survive the shearing force of ripping a hunk of meet out, he would literraly, pull his own teeth while taking a huge bite out of his prey...

    so, if' he's not a carrion eater, and he's not a carnivore... does that make him a vegitarian? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    I still believe he is capable of eating carrion without the 'bone crushing' ability... after all, when's the last time you saw a vulture crush bones? many modern carrion eaters simply pick the bones clean, or swallow the bones along with everything else... and t-rex certainly has the gullet to handle that...

    but I will tell you what I tell everyone (including my creationist dad.)

    "Well, we weren't there, so we can't really know for sure." which tends to take the air out of everyones arguments!
    \"Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: \"Mankind\". Basically, it\'s made up of two separate words - \"mank\" and \"ind\". What do these words mean ? It\'s a mystery, and that\'s why so is mankind.\" ~ Jack Handey

  8. #24

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    cant tell for sure, but theres some pretty god evidence as to what did and didnt happen [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

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