Wow! new genus in papua new guinea?

[Clint]

i am doing some trading with him and he mentioned he discovered a new genus in papua new guinea. this is his message:

"In Papua New Guinea there was a stand of plants that looked like Sars, and
those I've consulted with say it's a new genus, but the area is lawless, and
no one will go in there."

heres a part on his site that mentiones it: http://webpages.charter.net/tvaughan/carnies.html

this is my third post about weird new plants. hope you guys aren't getting sick of them

 

[sarracenialuver]

I think thats really cool, a new type of cp.....very interesting

,
Kevin

 

[Clint]

he says theres so much violance there that everyone hes contacted wont do it.

personally, if i lived in the area i'd do it in a heartbeat. maybe some "big names" in this hobby might like.. fly there in a chopper. who knows.

but imagine how mad they would be if it wasn't what they expected. it if they cant find it.

 

[Clint]

i've looked everywhere. i cant find anything about a different genus in papua NG on any websites. they always just call them "pitcher plants" very frustrating.

i dunno who Mr. vaughan didn't take some of the plants. or atleast pics. if it was me i would have snatched them up!!!

he should report it to the ICPS. its too bad that the world doesn't really take CP's seriously, otherwise this genus would already be discovered and in our terrariums probably.

then agian, if it is like sarracenia, its probably pretty large so only those with large terrs can keep them

 

[sarracenialuver]

Papua New Guinea, where is it, I belive it in South America, the plant would be somewhat like heliamphora, maybe a new, thinner and taller type?
Kevin

 

[Clint]

AUCTUALLY papua NG is very close to australia. no where near south america i'm afraid.

he e mailed me agian:

"It was 11 years ago, and they looked like a cross between Sars and
Darlingtonia. I've contacted Australian and Papuan University botany
departments, and no one's replied. The people who live there can't read or
write, a European or some other educated person would have to go in there
with a large guard."

 

[fatboy]

Sorry but this is not correct.

My uncle lived in Papua New Guinea for about 6 years and they do speak English as well as Pidgin English, and about a million local languages.
The side of the island that is called Papua New Guinea is independently governed (the west side is called Irian Jaya and is under Indonesian rule) and is safer than the west side. I personally have not heard of anywhere in Papua that is so unstable that you cannot go there, it is Irian that is sometimes dangerous. Admittedly it may have been true 11 years ago when Tim says he was there.

I have occassional contact with someone that is interested in CP's and that works at the University of Papua and he has never mentioned this?

If someone is able to provide some real proof I am happy to go and have a look for this myself!

Cheers, Troy.

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

I seriously doubt this as well, but speculation is fun and I get a charge out of someone that can create a good myth.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

It's probably a local planted bog garden.

 

[Clint]

whooo!! ok thanks. that puts my mind to rest

he might be a member of this forum. i know hes a member of the CPUK forum.

thanks!!

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

Tim just emailed me and asked if I was calling him a liar. I just want to ammend what I said, as I have no wish to insult or imply this. You can doubt someones observations without calling them a liar. I personally have strong doubts that there could be a new Genera unknown to the world, but obviously Tim obviously feels strongly that there is. I don't doubt that he saw something that may have seemed like a new CP, but without any documentation or corroboration this must remain in the realm of personal speculation and myth. Word of mouth observations without hard data must be considered hypothetical until proven and substantiated by independent observation. That is how science works.

On the other hand, all Genera and species were once unknown, and there are admittedly many mysteries waiting to be revealed! I will leave it at that, and keep an open mind.

 

[Tim]

Thank you Tamlin. I was alerted to this thread this morning, and while posting private emails is considered bad form, some good may come out of it. Fatboy and I have been exchanging very exiting emails, and I feel strongly that something interesting may happen by early next year. He realizes that I meant the tribesmen whom I stayed with spoke no English, just one of 800 languages and or 3000 dialects, as well as Pidgin, which I speak.

You did accuse my of starting a myth, though, and that implies intent.

I have traded, or bought from about a dozen people on this forum, and I see not one of them has casted doubts as to my personal integrity. This is appreciated.

Dustin, except for a certain young girl, you have been chided for passing false information more than anyone else on this forum. The only time I have seen Rob Cantley rebuke anyone strongly was you, so your charge of lying will not be taken seriously by anyone who's opinion matters to me.

Regards

 

[monkeyman]

I think it is very possible that what Tim saw was a carnivorous plant or something very close to that. But this is most likely a case of co-evolution (I forgot the proper term). So the plant Tim saw probably wasn't related to Sarracenia but had adapted the same survival strategy. I.E. Using funnel shaped leaves to lure and catch insects. If Tim could describe the plants and their habitat in detail then maybe we could start to build a picture of them. I'm more than willing to make a couple sketches and post them here. I just need some input.

Mike

P.S. Tim, I could have sworn you lived in Arizona.

 

[Pyro]

I am making this post now in the hopes of preventing anything bad happening.

There have been enought flames here of late, we do not wish to see another one.

The topic stays civil and on topic from this point on or it gets locked. Any finger pointing, argument, harsh words or vile thoughts can be taken up via PM or email.

Please feel free to PM me if you have a problem with this.

EDIT:

I would like to make it clear that I am not directing this post at any one person in specific, it is for everyone reading and replying to this thread.

 

[Clint]

oh i am so sorry tim and everyone else. this is my fault and i should have never posted Tims name or his private e mails.

so i take full responsibility. this is my fault and i'm sorry :-(

PS TIM: i shipped out your orchids today.

 

[D muscipula]

I have been a bit bothered by the tendency of people to jump on one bandwagon or another on this forum of late.  But i'm not posting to spread more FUD or point fingers, because i've been guilty of it myself before and will, no doubt, do it again in the future.  I will say that i've been aware of the statement on Tim's website that he saw what may potentially be a new genera of CP, and to await further news, for more than a month now, but was waiting... for further news.  I don't know Tim in person, but have no doubt that he's not making up stories.

Anyone who doubts the possibility of new genera of plant in Papua, New Guinea has obviously not been there.  While i can't say that i have, either, i attended a presentation a few months ago (NECPS meeting in conjunction with RIOS) given by a man recently returned from there, and left with my head spinning that a place as unexplored and remote still exists in this internet age.  Bob Chabot visited a tribe where the people had never seen a white man, and probably won't again.

The blurb on the meeting is here.

The reports of the danger of the country are not necessarily untrue.  Bob received warnings several times that the local guerrilla-robber band intended to ambush the expedition for the valuable equipment they carried, and the group hired some local "bodyguards" as defense against that possibility.

There are other dangers besides desperados in a tropical rainforest, as the presentation demonstrated.  I would love to see the sights Bob saw, but i'm not sure i'd fare well in that kind of environment.

 

[PlantAKiss]

The possibility of a new genus would indeed be exciting. New plants and animals are being discovered all the time. There is so much in this great world of ours, we don't know it all YET. But it does take more than a sighting to determine that. However intriguing and exciting, it remains speculation 'til proven--but speculation is the seed of all great discoveries! If mankind did not speculate, we'd probably still think the world is flat.

As with the new jellyfish discovery, there will much exploring, collecting and testing to be done in order to determine if indeed it is a "new plant" and to get it classified. They are still trying to figure out how to classify the new jelly (very interesting looking creature too).

I hope this issue can be explored further in the wild. Troy, may be you can hop that 'copter! It will be interesting to see what might develop.

Suzanne

 

[Spectabilis73]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (monkeyman @ June 24 2003,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it is very possible that what Tim saw was a carnivorous plant or something very close to that. But this is most likely a case of co-evolution (I forgot the proper term). So the plant Tim saw probably wasn't related to Sarracenia but had adapted the same survival strategy. I.E. Using funnel shaped leaves to lure and catch insects. If Tim could describe the plants and their habitat in detail then maybe we could start to build a picture of them. I'm more than willing to make a couple sketches and post them here. I just need some input.

Mike

P.S. Tim, I could have sworn you lived in Arizona.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Maybe not to catch insects, but to catch water?

Oh, and that's micro-evolution

 

[schloaty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it is very possible that what Tim saw was a carnivorous plant or something very close to that. But this is most likely a case of co-evolution (I forgot the proper term). [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Monkeyman, Spec, I think the term is "convergent evolution."

BTW, Tim, if you need bodyguards, I'll be oh-so happy to volunteer my services...

HIIIIIII YA!

That would really be cool if you could find a whole new genus....

 

[RamPuppy]

I too read that Tim beleived he had found something incredible at least a month ago on his website, and figured, when more comes out, it will sweept through the CP communitIES like a wild fire.

I admit, I am always easily drawn in to the idea that there is something new lurking out there, waiting to be discovered. It's pretty darn cool. I hope someone substantiates Tim's observation with photographic evidence (at the very least) in the near future. Introducing seed into the community, or getting a plant or two into the hands of the ICPS or another respected community would be a great thing. (I don't support poaching, but everything has to get into cultivation soemtime, and with the possible danger involved in merely visiting this plant just once, it seems that would be ideal.)

I don't think there is any need for this topic to degrade, it's a pretty darned interesting topic, and who knows? maybe Tim will have a new Genus named after him someday soon?