Alright, i've had enough of this...

[Spectabilis73]

ok, I just wanted to make this thread cause I want everyone to scan their savage garden books for errors on what per wrote... why am I asking? I found several myself:

Peter said, in the savage garden, that Nepenthes clipeata is highland!!! So I went off and treated it like your ordinary highland, nice, wet soil, cool temps, and other things... and it starts dying...

Then I go to the BACPS meeting to find outthat it is LOWLAND!!! So when I got home and put it in my lowland terrarium, and it's starting to recover. THEN, last night, I'm talking to goldtrap, and I find out that the S. x cobra nest is Sarracenia rubra x purpurea, goldtrap said, "look at page 89 in sg" So I look, and there it says S. rubra x purpurea is S. 'chelsonii' !!!

 

 

 

I'm not sure who is wrong on that last error, the person I got the info from, or the savage garden...
This is why I ask EVERYONE to look at their sagave garden book and look for errors, and post them here, I really need to know. I, and I don't think anyone else wants to, loose a beautiful rare, and special plant.
Thank you,
Spectabilis73

 

[schloaty]

Spec,
Why don't you e-mail the author, Peter D'Amato? Doesn't he own (or partly own) California Carnivores? You should be able to get in touch with him via their website.
Someone correct my if I am wrong please.

 

[Kate]

Yes, you can get intouch with him through California Carnivores.

As to the S. x chelsonii several other sources have the same hybrid listed as the Savage Garden (which incidentally is S. purpurea x rubra)

As for the Misplaced N. clipeata, there is the very disticnt possiblility that it was a publishing error, they are very common and often times the author has no idea they have happened until someone POLITELY points it out to them.

Email Peter, he'll be best able to deal with this.

Edit: I would also like to add that I do think it was somewhat irresponsible of you to say that S. x chelsonii was an error without first looking for additional sources of info. Next time try looking for additional sources first

 

[Kate]

Spec,

I'm sorry, that last post of mine came off sounding harsh,which wasn't my intention.

 

[Pyro]

S. 'Cobra's Nest' is a cultivar so it could very well be the hybrid of purpurea x rubra. After all P. 'Weser' and P. 'Sethos' are both hydrids of the same cross and to all intents and purposes are treated as seperate plants.

Errors happen in books and that is why I always say the stuff in 'Garden' or any other CP book should only be taken as pointers.

Other errors:

-Pete says that N. villosa is an easy plant suitable for beginners if I recall correctly.

-The book has it as U. reinformis, the correct spelling is reniformis.

-I would totally disagree with Pete's cultivation recomendations for the tropical and epiphytic Utricularia. Especially the weight he puts on drying the plants out.

-Many of the Sarr cultivars Pete has in the book are invalid or unregistered (S. oreo 'Don Schnell' and S. purp 'Red Ruffles' are a couple I remember off hand.)

 

[sarracenia]

Yes, Cobra Nest is a cultivar resulting from a purpurea x rubra cross. The chelsonii is a latin name originally given when it was thought the hybrid was an actual species. So all purpurea x rubra hybrids can be called chelsonii, but only the particular clone called Cobra Nest can be called Cobra Nest. Hope that helps clear that little bit up.

 

[Darcie]

yah, well, books aren't everything, thats for sure. I read another book that had what turned out to be very untrue VFT info.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Keep in mind that if your growing the clip-1 N. clipeata clone it is not pure N. clipeata.  It is N. clipeata x (N. clipeata x N. eymae).  As for highland/lowland; it is more highland than lowland.  Technically I would call it intermediate rather than true lowland or highland.  I would consider pure N. clipeata to fall in this range also.  I would be interested to hear what your highland and lowland growing parameters are since I have tossed all sorts of varied growing conditions at Clip-1 and it grows fine in just about everything.

While I agree that N. villosa should probably not be called an easy plant since it is a bit misleading.  This species is actually very easy to grow given the proper growing conditions.  The hard part is in providing those conditions not in growing the plant.
Tony

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

I'd like point out also that Peter lists N. madagascareinsis as a highland plant and I've found this out to be absolutely wrong as it is a true lowlander..trust me..I grew it in highland conditions....it doesn;'t like it!

 

[Jeremiah Harris]

nepenthes gracilis told me that N. bicalcarata is how it should be spelled not N. bicalcurata as in the "Savage Garden"

 

[larry]

Edit: nevermind

 

[BuMbOiMk]

yes i agree with dustin!
my Nep. madagascariensis was dying as highland and is recovering and doing much better now as lowland

 

[CP2k]

I do not agree with Peter that all mexican pings can be selfed to produce seeds. I have tried numerous times to self my gypsicolas, and not once have they produced seeds.

The book is a good reference, even with some mistakes.

 

[goldtrap2690]

I have emailed oeter last night , he has not replied me yet but fro previous emails he said the book was in its 3rd pritning

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

Here is the thing about expert advice: it is just advice. Take it with a good amount of skepticism. Only YOU can grow a plant, no one can do this for you. Individual differences in technique and climate make any advice extremely local. One of the things to doubt is when someone tells you that you "CAN'T" do a thing. What this means is they tried and failed. It is not ipso facto that you will fail as well. Some of the myths that have been successfully challenged have been issues regarding fertilization, dormancy, appropriate mixes, water levels, water purity, need for varrying photoperiod: in other words, just about every rule has been broken by someone somewhere sometime. Experiment, and more importantly, communicate the results of what you experience! There is no Cp Bible. There are just growers and their plants. If you care about your plants, and watch them, pay attention to their growth habits, you will get a feel for what is needed. Savage Garden is a good beginning place, but in the end the advice is only Peter's experience with his plants. I have said before, the best way to grow any plant is to learn about the location where it is from using a good web search. The more you can do to make things "like home" the better the plants will grow. By using the Cp database at

http://www2.labs.agilent.com/bot/cp_home

, and using the (correctly spelled) latin binomial, you can find where the type specimen of the species was collected. A websearch using that type location along with "climate" will soon provide a good picture of the conditions in habitat where the species grows. The more these conditions can be duplicated, the better the plants will grow. This includes seasonal wettness and dryness, day/night highs and lows regarding temperature, details of substrate, available sunlight, and elevation (which affects both temperature and light quality). It is not enough to know a plant is tropical: tropics are not always hot and humid. Elevation is a critical concern, and details of nightime highs and lows are very important for cultivation success. Some generalizations: Highland tropical + cool nights with a significant and rapid nightime drop in temps. with an increase in humidity. Lowland tropical: warm and humid conditions, with little day/night fluctuation. Bogs = high light, high humidity and cool roots. Woodland: lower light, more available nutrients, drier substrate. Plants found in seeps want cool roots and good aeration in the substrate. Summer dormant winter growers: need a media that will dry out but will do so slowly. Understanding the seasonal aspects of rainfall in habitat will help to understand the seasonal rhythm. In other words, try to incorporate as much of these details as possible in your growing technique. With CP, small differences in culture can often produce dramatic results.

 

[Dyflam]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tamlin Dawnstar @ Feb. 27 2003,9:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is no Cp Bible.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If there was a CP bible it would be "natural habitat'. If you provide these conditions the chances are Very good that your plant will survive. Is this a guarantee? No. Can your plant be acclimated to other conditions? Maybe. Some highlands do well under intermediate conditions... some intermediates do well under highland or lowland conditions... some lowlands do well under intermediate conditions. Under no circumstances is this a rule... just a guideline. Some plants are unforgiving. If you can't provide the proper conditions they will die.

I am no expert by any means... this seems like common sense to me.

Oh... by the way... I'm having a heck of a time getting my N. northiana to grow...

 (another topic)

Edit: I kind of got off on a Nepenthes tangent there...

 

[jack]

According to D'Amato, a Cultivar becomes legitimate if they are published in a book not necessarily in ICPS. And since he published his Cultivars in his book don't they become ligitimate Cultivar? Jack

 

[Tristan]

Maybe some people need to do some more research on there own. So far I haven't lost a plant to the Savage Garden. I stuck with the super easy plants. Then I went to other sources like this site and other books to back up info. If a plant was really that rare, expensive, and meant a lot to me I would do more research. The book introduces you to the plants and shows you some variety. I assumed there would be some errors and I bought only plants that he said were the best for beginners. I don't really care if some of the cultivars are wrong. The book started me growing CPs and that is what really matters. I have so many more resources now that I don't even have to use the book.
In other words its your own fault if you kill a plant.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tristan @ Mar. 01 2003,2:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In other words its your own fault if you kill a plant.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I must disagree with that. Plants die under good conditions due to natural causes, fungi, heavy pest infestations, spontaneously just decide their time has come, etc.

 

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pyro @ Feb. 27 2003,8:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-Many of the Sarr cultivars Pete has in the book are invalid or unregistered (S. oreo 'Don Schnell' and S. purp 'Red Ruffles' are a couple I remember off hand.)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You'll find 'Don Schnell' published in the 1993 CPN. So, it is actually valid. Describing a plant with a name in a publication or book, effectively establishes it as a cultivar.
imduff