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Thread: Cultivar seed

  1. #9

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    An example of a cultivar that is constantly produced by seed is D.capensis 'Albino'.

  2. #10
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    I am mistaken and take my hat of to you sirs! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    However, I would say, for MOST cultivars, the advice to destroy the seed, or simply not lable it is good... why?

    how many of you REALLY keep up with your labeling? I am sure Tamlin does, but how careful are you? Also, if you send out a packet of seeds labled as a certain cultivars seed, and even make the recipeint aware that this does not neccissarily mean what they grow will be that cultivar, how sure are you, and how CAN you have assurance, they aren't going to grow 200 genetic variances of which only maybe 50 could properly be labled and then trade out 190 of those plants, all labled as Cultivar A or what not... a few more generations of that, and we have a huge mess that probably can never be sorted out.

    So, I guess the key thing here, is being absolutely responsible in your actions... but realizing that that other guy, he or she, may not be as responsible as you... so what do you do? Grow it yourself? Make sure you can really REALLY trust the person you get the seed to? Or avoid the hassle, and destroy the seed, or never allow the plant to flower in the first place? Tough questions... and perhaps, there is no right answer!?
    \"Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: \"Mankind\". Basically, it\'s made up of two separate words - \"mank\" and \"ind\". What do these words mean ? It\'s a mystery, and that\'s why so is mankind.\" ~ Jack Handey

  3. #11
    Moderator Joseph Clemens's Avatar
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    Right-On Tamlin,

    I believe you are precisely correct. Thank you.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I just got The Savage Garden from the library. I've been reading it constantly. Peter D'Amato (the author, as I'm sure almost all of you know) says more than once that you should not sow seed from cultivars.
    My opinion is that The Savage Garden is an excellent text, though not yet 100% perfect.

    I remember those passages in The Savage Garden where seed produced from registered cultivars is encouraged to be destroyed. Tsk tsk, if everyone did this, lots of very wonderful plant cultivars would never come into existence.

    As Tamlin and others have mentioned, seed from "selfed" cultivars that grows to embody the exact definition of the parent cultivar --- is that cultivar. Heck, in the official cultivar definition documents, a cultivar does not even need to have the same parents. In other words (as an example), "cultivar A" can genesis from the cross of "plant A x plant B" or from the cross of "plant C x plant D" and this can happen at any time. All that officially matters is that all plants considered "cultivar A" must fit the written definition and photographic standard of "cultivar A".

    Read what is written there about the Pinguicula cultivar 'John Rizzi'. It defies his admonition to keep careful records of parentage.

    I think Peter is just steeped in the SOP (Standard Operating Proceedures) learned from other groups of cultivated plants, such as Orchids, and his book was written before the current proceedures were official. Heck, I had to overcome some of my earlier training and experience in that regard myself.



    Joseph Clemens
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  4. #12

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    There are two situations here. i don't know what plant you are talking about in particular, but if you self pollinate sarracenia for example, the resulting plant should be tagged F2. For example, S.x 'Dixie Lace', which is something like (rubra x leucophylla) x psittacina (don't quote me on that!) would be labelled

    F2 S.x (rubra x leucophylla) x psittacina

    How it would look is anyone's guess, but it may not be particularly strong since it an inbred plant.

    However, if you had two 'Dixie Laces' and crossed the, the offspring woul be called

    S.x (rubra x leucophylla) x psittacina

    There is no mention of 'Dixie Lace' since the the seedlings will look vaguely like the cultivar, but with various leanings towards the parents.
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Alvin Meister @ Dec. 03 2003,6:43)]However, if you had two 'Dixie Laces' and crossed the, the offspring woul be called

    S.x (rubra x leucophylla) x psittacina
    Since all Dixie Lace's are genetically identical, crossing two Dixie Lace's would be the equivalent of self-pollinating one.


    I also believe it to be acceptable to label a self-pollinated Dixie Lace (for example) as S. x 'Dixie Lace' F2, and not have to refer to the parents.

    I can only speak for Sarracenias but if you are planning on throwing out seed from Sarracenia cultivars, send it to me instead!! It is true that you can get some weak offspring from selfing a plant, but this is not 100% of the time. I have seen an enormous plant that was from a selfed 'Ladies In Waiting' - much larger than the cultivar. Selfing a plant that has multiple species in its heritage can give you some really interesting and unique looking plants.

    I ask this question semi-jokingly: If you were to cross a Dixie Lace with Judith Hindle, then registered one of the offspring as 'Dixie Hindle', do you think it would offend either of the breeders of the two, or anyone for that matter? It's been a secret plan of mine that could have started this year if something hadn't eaten my dixie lace's flowers.

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    OK.. maybe I am reading too much into the whole genetic shotgun... but... lets take and example here...

    let's say you broke a bunch of laws and cloned a man and a woman, and grew them to maturity. Then, couple A and B take the uhh.. proper action... to create a child. What are the odds that both children will be identical? pretty infintessimel.

    Just because all dixie lace are the same clone, does not mean that every seed is going to be produced using the same genes, dominants and recessives will display differently.. it reaaly is a genetic crap shoot... or.. am I wrong? maybe plants are so much simpler it's not a big risk?
    \"Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: \"Mankind\". Basically, it\'s made up of two separate words - \"mank\" and \"ind\". What do these words mean ? It\'s a mystery, and that\'s why so is mankind.\" ~ Jack Handey

  7. #15

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    Yes they would often times look very diferent from the parent plant....but out of 100 seedlings perhaps 25% would be very close. Yes you`r right about the dominant resesive alleles (technical term for genes). I have grown a tdb water lilly that looks exactly like `evelyn randig' from a batch of seed from victoria-adventure.org![img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/pondboy/Neps/Neps%20sig..JPG[/img]

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