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Thread: Which religions are represented here?

  1. #73

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    Speaking of Missions: I realise that the Missions carried out by people today are for those who want to know more. I'm taking Native American Anthropology at college, and have this to ask: since I am not a religious person, I cannot think the way a Christian may on terms of the forceful conversion of Amerindians (including certain Asian islands, during British colonial times). Is it viewed today as an awfully messy mistake, or is there "plenty " of justification for many (not all) of the late missionaries' terrorist (compare to the Taliban and you find no difference) actions? Of course, there are some Tribes that welcomed the Christian religion. Just some questions to feed my knowledge

  2. #74
    Odysseus's Avatar
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    I am not exactly sure what you are asking? What terrorist actions by Christian missionaries?
    Odysseus
    Wife and I in the Netherlands. Sure miss living out there.

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  3. #75
    fatboy's Avatar
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    Hi Odysseus

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Our Church does not bend on the commandments, anyone who does needs to properly repent.
    Does that mean you won't accept them praying and doing the actions (acting like a LDS) if they don't really feel it in their heart?
    Isn't that EXACTLY what you are asking them to do with regard to their own religion?
    Do the dances and keep the culture for the sake of tourism, but only pretend.
    Bit hypocritical in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I have never seen the Bali traditional dances and if they involved sex..
    Nah, if they did that I'd be Hindu tomorrow.

    Cheers, Troy.

  4. #76
    Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (fatboy @ Mar. 06 2004,18:25)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Our Church does not bend on the commandments, anyone who does needs to properly repent.
    Does that mean you won't accept them praying and doing the actions (acting like a LDS) if they don't really feel it in their heart?
    Isn't that EXACTLY what you are asking them to do with regard to their own religion?
    Do the dances and keep the culture for the sake of tourism, but only pretend.
    Bit hypocritical in my opinion.
    Hey Tony,

    I'm a bit confused on what you are drawing from my statement. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] When I mentioned that we don't bend on the commandments I was just trying to say that we never sway on what's right or wrong. For instance. Day One -- Sex before marriage is right and ok. Day two -- Sex is bad before marriage. That is swaying or bending. We don't do that with the commandments. I'm referring to the Ten Commandments.

    Now with your statement about, "isn't that what you're asking them to do with regard to their own religion."

    If their own religion is not Mormonism, than of course not. We don't ask other religions to do things our ways. We only ask those who BELONG to our religion or who WANT to belong to our Church to live up to the standards and tenants of the Church. I was never referring to people with two religions. Only to those who already determined that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was their church.

    The other thing, I don't know where you got "Does that mean you won't accept them praying and doing the actions (acting like a LDS) if they don't really feel it in their heart?" What do you mean by this statement?

    Tony, I really have enjoyed talking to you about this and answering questions. But, please, don't read beyond my statements. You took one line from my last response, assumed the worst and based your whole reply only on it. Doing it in a terse manner, ending your reply calling me hypocritical. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    What I wanted you to gain from my response was that if any Balinese joined the Church they would not have to lose their culture. You are not assimililated into the Church, you join it of your own free will and choice. Besides, the Mormon Church is not even an American Church. It is a religion of over 11 million followers whose majority live OUTSIDE of North America.

    P.S. Indonesian food is what made the mission in the Netherlands so easy to gain weight! I love that Sambal and Sate! Mm-mmm.... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    Take Care!
    Odysseus
    Wife and I in the Netherlands. Sure miss living out there.

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  5. #77

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    Arrow

    Odysseus,
    His name is Troy, btw, & I don't think he was calling you hypocritical - rather that the religion, i.e., LDS would be. I think he is saying that the dances & their culture is their religion. Have you ever seen liturgical dance in the US? It is a way for those in this country (christian, in my experience) to worship their god. In a similar way, the Amerindians (to use shokuchuu's term) incorporate dance into creating a worship ceremony. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] Just as the hula is a Hawaiian form of worship. Only the individual knows in their heart just what they are worshipping but these dances originated as a form of worship for their chosen deity. The dance can evolve into something else, people from the mainland love to go over & learn to hula but that doesn't mean they are worshipping the Hawaiian gods. The Amerindians are similarly aware of their culture getting diluted by it being 'popularized' among the non-natives. I think this is what Troy was getting at but I may be wrong, too. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img]
    And, God's Garden, I have to agree with you that a pile of bones will no way ever form into life. They will crumble into dust, we all know that. (Except with magic, like in the Lord of the Rings [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] ) So I'm lost on what your point was. Evolution? Well, that is a hot topic for debate, isn't it? Spontaneus life? We don't have the technology yet to prove or disprove it. Maybe never will. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]
    Has anyone read "The DaVinci Code" or his previous book "Angels & Demons?" Two fascinating works that talk about the interplay/conflict between science & religion.
    I have enjoyed the discussions here. Stimulating to think of all this stuff, isn't it?
    Restore our biosphere, create a new culture of kindness.

  6. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Odysseus @ Mar. 06 2004,07:15)]I am not exactly sure what you are asking? What terrorist actions by Christian missionaries?
    Forceful conversion of religious beliefs. I use the term terrorist because in my view, they were as evil (from my perspective) as the Taliban in Afghanistan.
    Not all Christians were/are peaches and cream. There is a notion that whatever they [the old-time missionaries] did, good or bad (inflicting tremendous pain to those who won't conform, for example), "God" is on their side.
    My question is, do Christians today realise the pain and suffering many (not all) Missions have inflicted on "uncivilised" peoples during colonial times? And if you do realise this, do you feel it was wrong?

  7. #79

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    I'm learning a bunch about a bunch here. I really enjoy reading everyone's views and beliefs, without getting upset in any way (I hope I haven't upset anyone yet. If I did, sorry!). Thanks everyone!

  8. #80
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    In the book of Matthew, Chapter 28, verses 18-20, Jesus said to his disciples, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in name of the Father, and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey everything I have commanded you. and surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

    It is from that command that motivated Christians in different ages to different peoples to go out and tell all humans that we / they are in a state of sin and that sin will lead to eternal death. However, putting one's faith in Jesus would erase that sentence. It's a very simple message - really. But its motivation comes from God's love toward us, not wanting any of us to die both physically and spiritually. God's people, the Christians, motivated by love toward God and people are God's means toward His ends - eternal life, freedom from sin, restoration of the broken relationship between God and humanity. Therefore, He provided the way for all humans to be exonerated. There's more theology that one COULD discuss about it - but it really isn't necessary. It doesn't get any more basic than the two verses in Romans 10:9&10 - That if you confess with your mouth."Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. While you're at it, just read the rest of the chapter.

    To be sure, some missionaries made mistakes along the way. Also, some missionaries got killed in the process (Jim Elliot) and others didn't see anything happen for at least ten years (Hudson Taylor). If a missionary has his or her motivation straight, they see their effort as a life and death situation - eternal life and death - not physical - not unlike pushing an unsuspecting person out of the way of an oncoming car.

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