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Thread: Which religions are represented here?

  1. #89
    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (buckeye @ Mar. 08 2004,14:43)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Maybe God created evolution, and/or he/she/it was the first single-celled life form to roam the face of this planet. It's the 21st century, and I believe it's time we at least attempt mixing the oil with the water.
    Alright, I think itís necessary to tell you how highly offensive and angry your statement that ďhe/she/it was the first single-celled life form to roam the face of this planetĒ has made me. God did not crawl out of the ocean as some piece of single cell scum. God has always been and will always be. God is: "Ö the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.", Revelations 22:13
    How do we now God didn't crawl out of the ocean as a "piece of single cell scum"? If we (as Christians) can accept that Jesus is the son of God and the incarnation of God as man and that God's spirit is in all of his creation, then why can we not accept this? Is it because to us it would be demeaning? Does that make it demeaning to God? I think that if God would think it worth becoming man to save us from our sins, then God would find the life of all things of equal importance. They after all have probably not caused near as much heartache as we have.
    ---Steve Allinger---

    How come chicken fingers are bigger than buffalo wings?

    My Grow List

  2. #90

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    I'm a Pagan of some sort. I don't think I can narrow it down much more than that, though.

    I believe in many Gods/Goddesses. I just don't believe strongly enough to worship any of them.

    I believe if Gods (or God, whichever) are benevolent, it won't matter if we worship them or not. And if they aren't, well, I wouldn't want to be associated with them anyways.

  3. #91

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    Arrow

    I'm always coming across these great quotes -- there are a few folks out there who just know how to say it...

    T h i n k A b o u t I t Ö
    "The scarcest resource is not oil, metals, clean air, capital, labor, or technology. It is our willingness to listen to each other and learn from each other and to seek the truth rather than seek to be right."

    ó Donella Meadows, (1941Ė2001), founder of the Sustainability Institute

    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    Restore our biosphere, create a new culture of kindness.

  4. #92
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Hello Everybody [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    I just wanted to stick a reminder in here that everyone is entitled to their opinion. To discuss religion is fine...it can be very interesting. But do not approach this as if you must convince someone to your way of thinking.

    Everyone is different; we think differently, believe in different paths...no one is "right" and no one is "wrong." Sharing different view points is FINE...it can be educational. But religious freedom is what is all about so don't be trying to "convince" anyone of anything. This is not the place for that. Religion is often a volatile subject so it must be discussed respectfully and with tolerance.

    I think its been handled quite well here with people being respectful. If anyone wishes to get heavy-handed with this exchange, please do so privately in PMs.

    Keep it on the "sharing opinions" level please. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Suzanne
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  5. #93

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    Hello.

    First off I want to say that nothing I said was meant to be an attack on any individual's beliefs. I admit, as I stated in my post, that some things said by others did get me sort of angry. Just because these things made me angry does not mean I have lost respect or think anything less of the individual. Everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs. We live in a country with religious freedom and that is one of the greatest things about this country. So I apologize for the tone but not for the content in my post. I still earnestly believe in everything I said.


    Sincerely,

    -buckeye

  6. #94
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    Ok, My turn, I guess.
    As I stated earlier, I don't beleive in any supreme being. I also don't believe in creation. For some reason, I (personally) don't require a reason for something to occur other that chance. I find that a lot of people need a reason for the universe to be created, and find difficulty with the idea that it just was. No one willed it, it just happened. I am a man of science, I was a physics major (10 years ago), and I as such I see things in numbers.

    I have seen the research and read the forumlas. Matter can and is (all the time) spontaneously created and distroyed with the smallest fractions of a second. This does not violate an laws of physics because the energies of of the particles are opposite (one positive and one negative), therefore it doesn't violate the law of conservation of energy (as the sum is still zero). So why can't the universe spotaneously come to exit? I guess I'm of a rare breed that doesn't feel uncomfortable with not having an answer. At least not a full one.

    With respect to daily life, are we truly good people if we do good because we're affraid of being punished in the afterlife? I think we're not good, just afaid. I devote my life to two things: My wife and my daughter-on-the-way. I live by the tenant that I will treat no one in a way that I would not like. Sometimes I mess up because most people are different from me (go figure). Then I say "I'm sorry."

    My oppinion of God is just as someone else mentioned (sorry forgot who, and not going back through 10 pages): An answer to all the questions we otherwise wouldn't know the answer to. The magic invisible man that gives our lives meaning when we're otherwise having trouble finding meaning, and the answer to the question of where did we come from (because, face it, most of us just can't do the math. Myself included. Differential equations, anyone?). I also beleive that many people need to have structure in their lives, and so they turn to a religion to find it. I, for some reason, don't. I actually don't like structure. Don't tell me what I can eat, drink, etc. That really sets me off! If what I do doesn't DIRECTLY HURT YOU, mind you business.
    Well, I'm sure I've left stuff out, so feel free to question me! I actually love debates like this.

    I am also impressed at how civil this has stayed! Kudos to everyone for keeping their cool! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]
    17 Nash Rd.
    North Salem, NY 10560

    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

  7. #95

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    Let me begin by saying whatís on my heart. Iím here in love, and I have the utmost respect for each and every one of you regardless of whether you agree with me or not.
    Buckeye, I understand that to you, and me, and Jim, and the rest (for brevity) that these issues are much more important than life or death. I can understand youíre anger, but anger that is not righteous is no better than the statement you oppose. So, ď Come let us reason togetherĒ, We are placed here to demonstrate the love of the Father, we need to approach everyone in love. Do I believe God loves every one? NO, ďFor Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have HATEDĒ Clearly this indicates to me that He dose not love everyone. But you know what, Iím not God. I in this human state am not able to determine whom He loves, and whom He dose not. I believe Iíve been shown through scripture That only God knows the hearts of men, and furthermore the He has not chosen to love those whom HE knew before the foundation of the world would not respond to His love. But, thatís not my call Iíve been commanded to JUST LOVE! Thatís it. If you ask me what I believe Iíll tell you (probably tell you if you do not ask). I spent quite a bit of time in
    Government ordered therapy after Bosnia. I learned that anger stems from hurt, and if unchecked turns to resentment. So, I must postulate that, your initial reaction was to be hurt by the rejection of our belief. But you, yourself was not the object of rejection. I feel that all I can do is tell what God has done for me, and anyone has the right to accept or reject what I believe. The problem then is not with me; itís purely between them and their Creator. Even so please remember that the servant is no greater than his Master is.
    I also however, disagree that itís possible that God could have been a single celled organism. First please allow me to appeal to the scientific mind, and corroborate this with scripture. Since I believe God is the Creator, and author of life I cannot see how a being could be bound by the very laws He would have created. Many Biblical fundamentalists hold the belief that Science is at odds with the Bible when it comes to the origins of the Universe. In fact the two have been drawing together heavily since the theory of the "Big Bang" emerged.
    Did you know that the term "Big Bang" was a derogatory name assigned to the theory at the time by other scientists? Well it is. You see the prevailing (and atheistic) theory at the time was the "Steady State" theory - which basically said the universe always was, and always will be what it is. The "Steady State" crowd was making fun of this new theory that had the whole of the universe expanding from a common point - they said what do you call that... a "Big Bang"? The name has stuck ever since!
    One of sciences key rules is that for every effect there is a cause. Quite possibly you have heard of the law of "cause and effect". So if there was a Big Bang (effect) - there had to be a cause (causation/creator/God)! It demands a creator who is outside/external to our universe. This creator would transcend our constraints of space and time - just how the Bible describes God. As you can now see Big Bang cosmology is the Christians ally - not enemy. Science's own rules now demand a creator. The Steady State crowd is still opposed to this new theory because by definition the Big Bang needs an initiator. It renders science as merely the study of God's Creation. The last thing Iíll say on this is there is a missing link. Itís missing because scientist can confirm quite assuredly THAT IT NEVER WAS.
    As for the creation timeline I ascribe to:
    15-20 billion years ago (Genesis 1:1) The beginning
    Initial creation of the universe (big bang if you will) where time space and matter are all brought into existence form the spoken word of God.
    5-6 billion years ago (Genesis 1:2)
    The earth and solar system were a mere nebula ("formless and void"). God moves/stirs the waters (nebula). The entire universe is made mostly of hydrogen, which is the main ingredient or element of water.
    4.6 billion years ago (Genesis 1:3) 1st Day Starts
    "Let there be light". God ignited the sun. With some nebula remaining - the earth would have been surrounded on all sides by light (reflecting off the gaseous glowing "clouds" of the nebula).
    4.5 billion years ago (Genesis 1:4)
    Separation of light from darkness. God cleared away the nebula, and allowed for there to be darkness for the 1st time on one side of the earth (the side facing away from the sun).
    4 billion years ago (Genesis 1:6) 2nd Day starts
    The earth cools... water in a liquid state becomes possible, crude atmosphere (air space between the water and thick clouds) starts to take shape.
    2.5 billion years ago (Genesis 1:6) 3rd Day starts
    The surface of the earth itself begins to take shape, dry land appears, the continents and seas form.
    1-2 billion years ago (Genesis 1:11)
    The first plants are created.
    1 billion years ago (Genesis 1:14) 4th Day starts
    The earth's atmosphere clears and clearly reveals the sun, moon, and stars. Now that they are visible, God designates them as timekeepers.
    500 million years ago (Genesis 1:20) 5th Day starts
    God creates animal life in the oceans, then insects, and then amphibians.
    500 million years ago (Genesis 1:20) 6th Day starts
    God creates reptiles and dinosaurs. A little later in the "day" he creates mammals.
    10-50 thousand years ago (Genesis 1:26)
    God creates Adam (modern man). Subsequently all the rest of the events of the Bible unfold.
    Let me reiterate that life in any given biosphere could not exist through a gradual evolutionary process stemming from a single celled organism.
    I not only share my belief, but also how I arrived at them. I believe I'm leaving an open door for disscusion. I try to base my beliefs on fact, and not my manipulation of evidence. If you've percisted in reading my lengthy post I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'm truly interested in what every one has to say. I enjoy this discussion. I have learned things from Odysisus that have shown some of my prior views about his religion to be incorrect.I say this because I have learned something from each of you. Thanks
    I always suspect everything is a trap....thats why I'm still alive

    Times fun when you're having flys

  8. #96
    Jeremiah Harris's Avatar
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    Hello all

    I'm a Born again Christian for the the most part I believe what Buckeye, Jim and God's garden do. I believe the earth (and every thing else) was created in 6 literal days and there was no before the fall (when Adam and Eve sinned). I believe in micro-evolution but not macro-evolution. I love science but only what can be proven.

    thanks
    -Jeremiah-

    I too love debates like this. lol [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

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