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Thread: Which religions are represented here?

  1. #121

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    I believe in God I just do not believe he created everything if he created anything. Sure I have many-o-questions but I am sure he understands. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] I do believe that evolution and religion do go together.

    Can I defend what I state? No because it is a belief. Sure you can use science to prove some evolution or you can use a bible to prove your religous side. Going back millions of years is to hard to prove anything - know matter what you use.
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

  2. #122

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    That was a PERFECT answer Noah! You hit the nail on the head!

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Not interested in getting involved in this debate, but I'm curious if someone could explain how dinosaurs fit in with creationism. Did God supposedly create dinosaurs, or did they not exist? Or something else?
    Trashcan, here's my take on dinosaurs. There are several theories out there, but this one makes the most sense to me. Before the Flood, people and animals lived a lot longer. There are some theories as to why this was, but I'm not an expert in that field. Some reptiles (such as alligators) never stop growing. If you lived for an extra 100 years, your gator is suddenly 20 ft long! I personally think there are still some dinosaurs around today, though we may not recognize them as such. Look at the Komodo dragon, what would it look like after it doubled or tripled in size? Those frilled lizard things? Miniature dinosaurs!

    I've read articles about dinosaurs, and many natives in central Africa have reported giant half lizard, half elephant like creatures. Does this sound familiar? What about the Loch Ness monster? If it exists, could it possibly be a dinosaur? What about the ocean? We've only explored approximately 1% of it! Think of all the creatures that could be in there! I just think these ideas are interesting and would not be utterly surprised if we happened to find a plesiosaurus or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Can I defend what I state? No because it is a belief.
    Travis!?!? If you can't defend what you believe, what good is it? I do not mean to come across as rude here, but if a person can't defend their beliefs, why should I believe them?

    If someone were to tell me they believed humans were actually robots that are controlled by alien beings and then couldn't defend or even tell me why they believed that, I definitely would not give what they say any credence what so ever! Would you?

    SF

  3. #123

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    Let me ask a question here.

    Would you classify evolution as a scientific theory, or a religion? How about Creationism?

    SF

  4. #124
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (SnowyFalcon @ Mar. 09 2004,04:45)]
    there are a few serious "creationist misconceptions" being discussed here..thought I would take a crack at them..

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]How about Ramapithicus (I'm sure I botched the spelling), whose entire body was artistically rendered from a two inch piece of jawbone. Lucy, whose skeleton exactly resembles that of a modern day chimpanzee, yet is touted as the link between apes and humans? Nebraska man? A whole body derived from a single tooth (which ended up coming from a pig)? Where does the fossil record prove this?
    yes, its true there are several "early hominid" fossils that are now known to be incorrect..but that disproves nothing.
    because there are MANY that show obvious traits of both apes and humans..they are truely in-between forms..
    its not true that Lucy exactly resembles a chimp..her skeleton is quite different from a chimp..so that one is simply outright false..
    Lucy belongs to the Genus and species "Australopithecus afarensis"..They have traits that are obviously more eveolved that apes, but yet not as advanced as modern humans..
    no question about it..fossils dont lie:
    saying "Lucy, whose skeleton exactly resembles that of a modern day chimpanzee" is simply an outright lie..

    http://www.modernhumanorigins.com/afarensis.html

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So basically, if I stick a few humans in an isolated part of a continent, they will become something different eventually?
    yes! absolutely..

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Well, I happen to have some evidence. Radiometric dating is not nearly as accurate as you might think. One example off the top of my head is seal skins. Scientists took fresh seal sins and dated them. The tests came back saying they were 1400 years old! That's an OLD seal!
    utterly and completely irrelevant..
    get a calculator, and add together these numbers:
    2376
    44998
    8712339
    776.895
    445.091
    55.9906

    If you make one mistake while entering those numbers, the result will utterly wrong..
    does that mean the process of addition is ALWAYS wrong?
    of course not..
    finding a few examples mistakes being made does not prove that the entire process is flawed..all it proves is some mistakes were made..human error..
    you cant use those mistakes to say the WHOLE process is flawed! but yet thats exactly what creationists attempt to do..


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Scientists have been studying and measuring the sun for over 100 years. It is and has been shrinking at a rate of 5 ft an hour. Take this backwards in time and you have the sun growing at a rate of 5 ft an hour. Now this doesn't seem like a lot when the Sun is millions of miles across, but when you multiply by 4 billion years or so, you have a HOT problem (hehehe!)!
    In fact, if the earth were even 20 MILLION years old, the sun would be touching the earth!!! This is during the Cenozoic period (sp?) when humans should have existed! How can this be possible? Can you touch the sun and live?
    not quite sure what you mean here..
    who says the sun was once much larger than it is now?
    oh wait..I get it now..since the sun is now shrinking at that rate, it has ALWAYS been shrinking at that rate? and was once much larger?
    ok..that would make sense, if it was true the sun was actually shrinking..there isnt conclusive evidence it is..
    and even supposing it IS true, how do know it has *always* been shrinking at the same rate? we have no idea..
    this is an example of taking one small observation, which may or may not be true, and building an entire theory around it based on no factual eveidence at all! in short, this particluar arguement against evolution has essentially been made up out of nothing..hardly conclusive..

    here is a great page!
    answers most questions:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-meritt.html

    Scot

  5. #125
    Capslock's Avatar
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    Great stuff, everyone! I'm caught up in contract negotiations at work (was out till 11:30 last night!), and can't wait to dive back in here, but alas, it will have to wait till tonight at eariliest. I don't want to be slack in my replies.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  6. #126

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    Well if you can defend what happend several million years ago...go ahead? I can not. I believe things evolve or they die because they can not handle the new surroundings. I am not asking you to believe my belief...I need facts and the only facts we can come up with is what happend thousands of years ago. Sure we have dinosaur fossils but we can not prove a T-Rex's became a another creature of sorts that is living today. Just like I do not think god created everything...it may be writtin but I do not believe it.

    Travis [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

  7. #127

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    Lucy : http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-011b.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So basically, if I stick a few humans in an isolated part of a continent, they will become something different eventually?
    yes! absolutely..
    Well, why didn't the Mayans become a different species than the Chinese?

    There are SO many articles on C-14 dating out there, I won't even bother posting them. Do a google search if you want to. One interesting one I found in about 30 secs is this.

    Check out this article on the sun shrinking.

    Gotta get back to schoolwork!

    SF

  8. #128
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    SF, those aren't scholarly or scientific sources of information, but rather from a site that proudly proclaims it's bias. They start from a conclusion and work backwards, which is the opposite of the scientific method. "Answers in Genesis" is not a scientific organization.

    Although I hope to get into more detail later, I just wanted to point out that in searching for knowlege, you'll be able to find whatever answers you want on the internet. There is no shortage of biased information out there. Whenever possible, it pays to seek non-partisan, unbiased information from people who don't have a stake in one answer.

    In this case in particular, you cite an article by Snelling, who boasts a PhD and claims to be a peer-reviewed geologist. It appearst that's correct, but his scholarly articles make repeated reference to geologic activity from hundreds or thousands of millions of years ago- in direct contradiction to his religious writings that proclaim an earth only thousands of years old. In fact, all writers for Answers in Genesis subscribe to an anti-scientific "Statement of Faith", which reads, in part:

    "(A) PRIORITIES

    1. The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator and Redeemer.

    (B) BASICS

    3. The account of origins presented in Genesis is a simple but factual presentation of actual events and therefore provides a reliable framework for scientific research into the question of the origin and history of life.

    5. The great flood of Genesis was an actual historical event, worldwide in its extent and effect. "

    The Dr. Snelling who writes in Answers in Genesis makes no mention of his scholarly writings that freely mention an earth millions of years old, and his scholarly writings never mention his beliefs or works with the ICR or Answers in Genesis, nor the notion of an earth a few thousands of years old. It would appear to me that his committment to science is on an "opportunity" basis only.

    For a rebuttal to Snelling's theories, read this:
    http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/s...od_geology.htm

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

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