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View Poll Results: Survey on Member Religious Preferences - Choose what best describes your beliefs

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  • Far East religions i.e. Taoism, Hinduism, Confuciousism, Buddhism, etc.

    3 2.75%
  • Islamic religions

    0 0%
  • Jewish religions i.e. Messianical Jew, Yiddish, Orthodox etc.

    0 0%
  • Christian religions organized before 1800 A.D.

    19 17.43%
  • Christian religions organized after 1800 A.D.

    24 22.02%
  • Pagan

    4 3.67%
  • Atheist

    23 21.10%
  • Different religion not based on a belief of traditional God(s).

    2 1.83%
  • I draw my beliefs from one or more religious traditions to make it my own.

    16 14.68%
  • Don't affiliate with a religion or have any interest.

    18 16.51%
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Thread: Survey on Member Religious Preferences

  1. #97
    Odysseus's Avatar
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    Peter, there are several questions I hope you will answer. You have not given me clear responses to some of them. Not ones that I could relay without worries of misquoting you. Also, I have a few others. If you could answer these following questions in order and do it using the quote feature of this forum. i.e.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]1. What is your name?
    My name is John Doe.

    That way I can be clear on your position. THanks!

    Real quick on polygamy, less than 4 % of our church at the time practiced polygamy. And I regret your implication that Joseph Smith took on more wives for his own enjoyment and tried to "justify" it. If you have read more on our history, you would come across an account where Joseph was pained and tearful about the revelation of taking on another wife.

    Here are my questions:

    1. What is the most logical foolproof explanation for the origin of the Book of Mormon?

    2. What is your church's name, and according to your church what is the whole truth?

    3. What prophecies of Joseph Smith came true?

    4. What do you like about the Mormon church?


    To answer some basic points brought up earlier, here are some of my replies.

    WPG, Joseph Smith died on 27th of June, 1844. To maybe answer more curiosity. Here is a quick Chronology:
    spring of 1820 -- Joseph Smith (14 yrs. old) prays to God asking him what church at the time in Palmyra, New York he should join. His family was half Methodist, Presbyterian. He wasn't sure which to join so he followed KJV James 1:5 and asked God for wisdom. Joseph was answered by a visit of God the Father and Jesus Christ. (Joseph's first criticism was that he claimed God and Jesus Christ to be seperate beings. Thanks to that visit in 1820 to a young boy, the world can KNOW what has unfortunately been skewed by the Niceaen creed, that God the Father and Jesus Christ were in fact seperate beings! Not the trinity so created by the council in Nicea.)

    September 21st - 22nd, 1823 -- First appearances of the angel Moroni.
    Sept. 22nd 1827 -- After four years of preparation the Angel Moroni entrusts Joseph Smith with the records which were buried for over a 1000 years and from these records Joseph Smith translates with the power of God what is today's Book of Mormon.
    May 1829 -- Joseph Smith receives from James, Peter, and John and John the Baptist the authority for the Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizedek Priesthood. (True visitations from these same men from the New Testament. I testify that these things are true! Smith was visited by those great men!)
    Fall 1829 -- First print of the Book of Mormon
    April 6th, 1830 -- Church of Jesus Christ organized.
    April 26th. 1838 -- Revelation revealed that the name of the church would add "of Latter-day Saints." (8 years after its organization the Church recieved the final words of its name)

    That is really a 2% history timeline. But, for WPG who wanted to know Joseph Smith's death date it should be somewhat interesting. Anyone wanting to know the full history check out these book PDF Versions and other stuff here on the LDS.org/church history

    I promise this will be my longest post. Thanks for being patient with it.

    Odysseus
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  2. #98

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    does your church believe in polygamy?
    I love Vin Diesel!! *Growl* Nobody better talk bad about him or else!!!

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  3. #99
    Odysseus's Avatar
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    Not at all. We don't believe in polygamy. At one time as I mentioned before there were less than 4% that were asked through revelation to practice polygamy. Thus, not just anyone in our church who wanted more wives could practice it. If they did so without consent, then they were excommunicated. That is why today there are several break offs of our church who CALL themselves mormon and still practice polygamy. These people don't belong to our church.

    So, no we don't practice polygamy. And I am thankful for that! I like having only one wife!

    Odys
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  4. #100
    rubrarubra's Avatar
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    My name is Peter Elhardt.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]1. What is the most logical foolproof explanation for the origin of the Book of Mormon?
    Well, if you want foolproof, that would be that Smith made it all up. Since several chapters quote KJV texts this could well account for that explanation. Also, there are minor dissimilarities between accounts in the Book of Mormon and the Bible. This sounds like someone who knew the Bible pretty well, but made a few mistakes. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John also were imperfect, but the four gospels agree perfectly.

    The other option is that Satan appeared to Smith as an angel and gave him false revelations, and Smith, beleiving this, wrote up the Book of Mormon. As I said earlier, Mohammed also supposedly received revelations from an angel of God.

    Both of these are logical and foolproof options.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]2. What is your church's name, and according to your church what is the whole truth?
    Well, I attend a church called Sonrise Christian Fellowship of Simi Valley (a Foursquare church), and a bible study attended and led by people mostly around my age (teenagers.) Both groups know the Bible to be the whole truth and we study and learn from it. I do not consider myself a member of either church, but a member of the Family of Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]3. What prophecies of Joseph Smith came true?
    PROPHECIES OF JOSEPH SMITH WHICH WERE FULFILLED (?)
    MOVE TO THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS: Aug 6, 1842. HC, George Q. Cannon Diary, Anson Call Diary (which gives the date as 1843), cited in Morris, PJS. Prophecy that the Mormons would continue to suffer affliction and would finally move to the Rocky Mountains and become a mighty people.

    FULFILLMENT: Joseph Smith sent scouts West in 1843 to look for a place to settle, and again on Feb 21, 1844 he instructed the Twelve to explore the West. He was considering Oregon, California, and Texas, as well as the Great Basin, as the next Zion. [Quinn p 635] The Mormons did move to the Rocky Mountains and became the most powerful segment of society in Utah, as well as an influential force in several other Western states, a position which they have maintained and continue to strengthen.

    However, the Call diary was not actually written until years later, from memory, and the manuscript of the HC dates only from 1845 (after JS's death), where the words of this prophecy appear only as an interlinear insertion which could only have been made after the Mormons actually arrived in Utah. Thus it appears that this "prophecy" is a forgery. See MPM 85-86.

    PROPHECY ABOUT STEPHEN A. DOUGLAS: May 18, 1843. HC 5:393-4,398, Chron JS, PJS. Joseph Smith prophesies to Stephen A. Douglas that he will "aspire" to the presidency of the U.S., and that if he ever turns against the Mormons, he will "feel the weight of the hand of Almighty God upon [him]"

    FULFILLMENT: Douglas did aspire to the presidency, but did not get it. Mormons claim that it was because he did turn against them. However, this prophecy, like the previous one, appears to be a forgery by the editors of HC. It supposedly is recorded in Wm. Clayton's diary. The manuscript of that diary, however, has no prophecy about Douglas. See MPM 86-88.

    MORMONS WILL ESCAPE THEIR ENEMIES: Feb 25, 1844. HC 6:225, Chron JS. Joseph Smith prophesies that within five years the Mormons would be out of the power of their old enemies.

    FULFILLMENT: By 1849 the Mormons had set up their theocracy in Utah and, for a time at least, were no longer plagued by their enemies. (By 1857, however, the U.S. was sending an army to Utah to put down the "Mormon Rebellion.")

    JACKSON COUNTY WILL BE DEVASTATED: ca. 1839. Unrecorded prophecy, reported in Morris, PJS p 180. Joseph Smith advised General Doniphan not to own property in Jackson County, Missouri, because "God's wrath hangs over Jackson county. God's people have been ruthlessly driven from it, and you will live to see the day when it will be visited by fire and sword. The Lord of Hosts will sweep it with the besom of destruction. The fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation."

    FULFILLMENT: In 1863 Union troops were ordered to burn all houses and crops in Jackson County because of the anti-Union guerrilla warfare of the residents. It was considered one of the worst atrocities of the war.

    PORTER ROCKWELL WILL DIE IN BED: Joseph Smith promised his body guard Porter Rockwell that if he never cut his hair, he would die in bed.

    FULFILLMENT: Rockwell complied, and in spite of a violent life, died peacefully. (Harold Schindler, Orrin Porter Rockwell, Salt Lake City 1966, pp 108-109)

    A VAIN PROPHET WILL BE THROWN DOWN: This prophecy by Joseph Smith, although it was fulfilled quickly and literally, is rarely cited by Mormons. July 1828. D&C 3:4. "For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

    FULFILLMENT: On May 26, 1844, Joseph Smith made the following statement in a public sermon (Brodie p 374, HC 6:408-412):

    "Come on, ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All ####, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! For I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

    At this time he was secretly married polygamously to over 40 women, some of them wives of men still living. Many who knew of these secret marriages accused him of changing the doctrine of the church to satisfy his own carnal desires, in violation of the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:23-29, 3:5) and D&C 49:16.

    Almost exactly one month after this boast, on June 27, 1844, he was killed by his enemies in a gun battle at Carthage Jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]4. What do you like about the Mormon church?
    Mormons seem to be very zealous about their religion and faithful in carrying it out. I wish more Christians were that way.

    Anyway, I need to take care of minor details of my life...


    Peter

  5. #101
    rubrarubra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]May 1829 -- Joseph Smith receives from James, Peter, and John and John the Baptist the authority for the Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizedek Priesthood. (True visitations from these same men from the New Testament. I testify that these things are true! Smith was visited by those great men!)
    First place, the none of these people have the authority to ordain Smith in the ancient priesthood. Secondly, priesthood was inherited, so Aaronic Priesthood would only be received by the descendants of Aaron.
    Finally, if Peter and Johnís accounts matched Matthew and Lukeís accounts, how can they support someone who contradicts Matthew and Luke?

    You say that the Mormons who practice polygamy have broken off from the LDS but still call themselves Mormons. Isnít that the same as Mormons calling themselves Christians, except on a much smaller issue?

    WPG, then can we really do anything to Saddam Hussein, if he wasn't wrong and we weren't right? He did what he beleived was right...

    Peter

  6. #102
    rubrarubra's Avatar
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    Odysseus, here's another one. The Bible expressly forbids and marriages other than one man and one woman. Smith obiously made up any parts of the Book of Mormon that allow polygamy...
    In II Timothy 3:16 - "All scripture is given by the inspiration of God". How can God inspire two mismatched accounts of the same events?

  7. #103

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    [QUOTE=[b]Quote[/b] (rubrarubra @ April 01 2004,3:46)]
    WPG, then can we really do anything to Saddam Hussein, if he wasn't wrong and we weren't right? He did what he beleived was right...

    Peter
    Murder is morally wrong. My theory really applies to Religions, not affairs. If a religion kills b/c they thought it was right then i would say to myself that is wrong, but a lot of African religions did kill b/c they thought it was right, to me that is just slaughter. To Saddam he thought it was right, but murder is never right. it's wrong.
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  8. #104
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    WPG,

    You say murder is morally wrong. According to who? If murder is absolutely morally wrong no matter what religion or people, then there is obviously at least some moral standard that applies to all, no matter what their beliefs are. So where does this moral standard come from? who decides what it is? Is stealing wrong? Is adultery? Where do you draw the line between beliefs and a moral absolute?

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