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View Poll Results: Survey on Member Religious Preferences - Choose what best describes your beliefs

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  • Far East religions i.e. Taoism, Hinduism, Confuciousism, Buddhism, etc.

    3 2.75%
  • Islamic religions

    0 0%
  • Jewish religions i.e. Messianical Jew, Yiddish, Orthodox etc.

    0 0%
  • Christian religions organized before 1800 A.D.

    19 17.43%
  • Christian religions organized after 1800 A.D.

    24 22.02%
  • Pagan

    4 3.67%
  • Atheist

    23 21.10%
  • Different religion not based on a belief of traditional God(s).

    2 1.83%
  • I draw my beliefs from one or more religious traditions to make it my own.

    16 14.68%
  • Don't affiliate with a religion or have any interest.

    18 16.51%
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Thread: Survey on Member Religious Preferences

  1. #153

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    Hi Aaron,
    Its just plain heresy, the Bible says there is one God and the Mormon church says there are 2 or more..! Personally I take the Bible as the last word, not the book of Mormon!
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

  2. #154
    Odysseus's Avatar
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    Mike...Mike...Mike

    Respectfully, I have plead the case that Christ is one seperate being and God, the Eternal Father is another seperate being BY USING ONLY the King James Version of the Bible! I have not used Book of Mormon scripture to argue my case. So what are you alluding to in your last statement?

    Come on, you know that I have been only using versus from the Bible. Why did you say what you just said?
    Odysseus
    Wife and I in the Netherlands. Sure miss living out there.

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  3. #155
    rubrarubra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Come on, you know that I have been only using versus from the Bible. Why did you say what you just said?
    Hey Aaron,
    using scripture references does not necessarily make you right. Satan tempted Jesus in Matthew 4 using scripture references. Here is my argument on the subject.

    John 1:10 - "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

    Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

    Job 33:4 - "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."

    These three verses refer to different parts of the trinity having made us.
    Peter
    This verse refers to Jesus. Now

  4. #156
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    Odysseus, those of us who aren't locked into a rigid doctrine appreciate the position you're coming from. Everyone has their own beliefs, and many different Christian sects believe the Bible justifies their beliefs. It isn't just Mormons. It's Catholic vs. Protestant and so on, ad infinitum. In fact, it's quite possible that no two individuals have the same understanding accross the board of what the Bible says.

    Yes, they are picking on you, and no, you don't have to continue to defend yourself. You aren't going to convince these guys that Mormons have it right. However, you've given the rest of us a glimpse into your church that we appreciate, both through the information in your posts and the way in which you've given it.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

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  5. #157

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    OK, God oviously had a good reason for giving us his word and we have two sides to a debate lets keep it friendly all the way around in the process of this debate. I don't have much to say about the trinity, but I do question Joseph Smith's status as a prophet. Especially to claim to have seen the face of God the scriptures dealing with this is EX33:11-23, Jn 1:18,Jn6:46 1TIM1:17, 1Tim6:16, 1Jn 4:12 Deut 18:20-22. Also the mark of a false prophet is a single prophesy turns out false. So what of Mr. Smith's claims in the doctrine of covanants 84:1-5 "A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.

    "Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.

    "Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

    "Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

    "For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house."

    On August 2, 1833, Joseph made the claim, "Surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there;"

    Joseph Smith was specific about the location of Zion in December of 1833, "Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered....And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints."

    It was understood by Mormon authorities that the temple would be reared in Independence, Missouri, within the generation that Joseph was living. Apostle Orson Pratt told the General Conference in 1870, "...God promised in the year 1832 that we should, before the generation then living had passed away, return and build up the city of Zion in Jackson County; that we should return and build up the temple of the Most High where we formerly laid the corner stone....We believe in these promises as much as we believe in any promise ever uttered by Jehovah. The Latter-day Saints just as much expect to receive a fulfillment of that promise during the generation that was in existence in 1832 as they expect that the sun will rise and set tomorrow. Why? Because God cannot lie. He will fulfil all his promises. He has spoken, it must come to pass. This is our faith."

    For many years, Mormon Church authorities proclaimed their faith in this prophecy. In 1900, President Lorenzo Snow stated, "There are many here now under the sound of my voice, probably a majority, who will live to go back to Jackson County and assist in building that temple."

    As late as 1935, Joseph Fielding Smith, who would become president of the church proclaimed, "I firmly believe that there will be some of that generation who were living when this revelation was given who shall be living when this temple is reared....I have full confidence in the word of the Lord and that it shall not fail."

    (1) Smith's prophecy was proclaimed as a revelation of Jesus Christ and "the word of the Lord."

    (2) A generation, according to Webster's Dictionary, is "A single stage or degree in the succession of natural descent...(about 30 years)." The Bible recognizes between 35 to 40 years according to the life-span of Job (Job 42:16). The Book of Mormon counts the time as 110 years (4 Nephi 1:18). In any event, it has now been 165 years since the prophecy was given by Joseph Smith. Every single original player is now dead. It is safe to assume that Smith's generation has passed away.

    (3) No Mormon city has ever been established in Missouri.

    (4) The temple lot in Jackson County is not owned by the Utah Mormon Church. No temple has ever been built on that site.

    (5) As Joseph Smith was declaring his prophecy in Kirtland, Ohio, in August 1833, he was unaware of the problems in Missouri. "Zion" had already been "moved out of her place." Two weeks prior to his revelation, the LDS newspaper presses had been destroyed, and leading Mormon officials had been tarred and feathered and then run out of town.

    (6) The only "cloud" to rest on the temple lot was the cloud of dust that was raised when the entire Mormon Church was eventually chased out of the state and had to flee to Utah.

    In response to those who profess that "Zion" was "reestablished" in Salt Lake City, they should read again the words of Joseph, "...behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed. " So much for Salt Lake City, Utah!

    Joseph's prophecy was entirely false. It is ironic that Joseph Smith's own words would serve to convict him. In an article he published in The Evening and Morning Star, July 1833, p. 1, Joseph stated, "The only way to ascertain a true prophet is to compare his prophecies with the ancient Word of God, and see if they agree, and if they do and come to pass, then certainly he is a true prophet....When, therefore any man, no matter who, or how high his standing may be, utters, or publishes, anything that afterwards proves to be untrue, he is a false prophet."

    By Joseph Smith's own words he is proven to be a false prophet.There is also the cicil war account which I'm sure you aware of. I'll stop there, but could you explain who Oliver Granger is to me please. Thanks for you time I feel there is knowledge on both sides of this fence to be had.
    I always suspect everything is a trap....thats why I'm still alive

    Times fun when you're having flys

  6. #158

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    Well you see the Doctrine of the mormons say if you'r not mormon yer out of luck, so I just want to be sure when I die of where I'm going. If Aaron has it right than the truth will manifest itself. But I take some convencing, which is why I'm non-denominational. I believe the Bible as the final athourity and not skewed church doctrine.
    I always suspect everything is a trap....thats why I'm still alive

    Times fun when you're having flys

  7. #159
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    Capslock, while agree that there are many different interpretations of scripture, there are some obious misinterpritations such as the one of Mormons on the trinity. With the three verses I posted, you can't deny the existence of the trinity. Also, Acts 17:19-21, which we were discussing a while back, obviously refers to Israel, and there is no denying that either.
    Peter

  8. #160

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    Hi Guys,
    Please email me if you want a copy of the teaching notes I have from the Christain leadership and discipleship course which explains the Trinity etc from a Biblical perspective
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

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