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Survey on Member Religious Preferences

Survey on Member Religious Preferences - Choose what best describes your beliefs

  • Far East religions i.e. Taoism, Hinduism, Confuciousism, Buddhism, etc.

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Islamic religions

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jewish religions i.e. Messianical Jew, Yiddish, Orthodox etc.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Christian religions organized before 1800 A.D.

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Christian religions organized after 1800 A.D.

    Votes: 7 26.9%
  • Pagan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Atheist

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • Different religion not based on a belief of traditional God(s).

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • I draw my beliefs from one or more religious traditions to make it my own.

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • Don't affiliate with a religion or have any interest.

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • Total voters
    26
  • #181
I've been a Christian since 10/6/76 and have learned a lot since then. I am STILL learning new things as well as having head knowledge sink into my heart. In the past few months three concepts have gone from my head to my heart:

1) Satan, from the beginning of the Gospels, was doing everything in his arsenal to undermine God. He tried to tempt Jesus to choose the power, pride, and bodily needs. He tried to have his demons proclaim His identity. He tried to turn His miracles into circus acts. He tried to make Him an earthly king. He tried to kill Him as a newborn. He tried to get His disciples confused about His mission. He tried to keep Him from the cross. Jesus would have none of that nonsense.

2)The phrases, actions, and metaphors that Jesus used have lost their meaning to the common reader of today and thus wrong conclusions have been drawn about what Jesus claimed about Himself. Jesus referred to Himself as Son Of Man and has been called Son Of God. He called Himself I Am. He healed people and forgave sins. Today's reader misses the point. When the Jewish leaders picked up stones to kill him because of blasphemy - they understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and doing the things that only God had the power and authority to do. Jesus, in more than one place, claimed to be GOD!! And they knew it. They just couldn't believe that He could be. All throughout the gospels Jesus, in one form or another, was claiming to be God and do what only God could do. He wasn't claiming to be "a God" or "a god." He was claiming to BE THE GOD.

3) He was also claiming to be God in human flesh. God limited himself by being in a human body, with human emotions, with human limitations. A lot of people are uncomfortable with this concept and have struggled to understand how or why Jesus, if God, would say things like, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Or, why Jesus would say that the Son of Man doesn't know the day or hour of certain events. Or why He would seek lonely places out to pray to His Father. Many Christians find it difficult to fathom. But God HAS the capacity to limit Himself to being fully human as well being fully God. Just because humans find it weird, doesn't mean it isn't truth or doesn't sound possible or logical. WE can't do that - but He can - and did.
 
  • #182
Hey Mike and Zappafan,

I was unaware that Mike was putting Yahweh and Elohim there in parenthetics because he was letting me know that the Hebrew version of the text in Deuteronomy have them there instead of the english words Lord and God. I thought Mike was placing them there himself.
biggrin.gif
My mistake!

Mike, next time you are quoting several language versions of a text it would be helpful if you labelled it. That way I could answer better without confusing it. Thanks.
 
  • #183
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That way I could answer better without confusing it.

Now that you know, the answer is...
 
  • #184
im getting a lil' lost on the topic but oh well. Very interesting subject. Are we talking about the Trinity?
 
  • #185
Hi Aaron,
Once I got the scanning file size thing sorted, you will see my study notes on the whole subject!

biggrin.gif
 
  • #186
Thanks Mike.  I look forward to it.  

Peter,

My previous answer to Mike's post included the phrase, "except that Yahweh and Elohim are included."  I was wrong.  Mike was making a valid point using Hebrew versions of the text and I mistook that.  I made part of my answer a mistake.  But the rest of mhy answer still stands.  If you want, go back and read it.  

Seriously, I don't know why you keep accusing me of not giving my answer...


WPG,
Yep.  We are.  So far Mike, Zappa, Peter, Jim Scott and a few others stand on the Trinity being that God is in fact one being including Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost.

I am so far the only one believing that Jesus Christ and God the Father and the Holy Ghost are all THREE seperate beings.  But all part of the Godhead.  
biggrin.gif


Does that catch you up a bit?
 
  • #187
Ok, as for the rest of your argument...

I don't think God wanted for Jesus to die either. However, it was the only way to save us.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Seriously, I don't know why you keep accusing me of not giving my answer...

I guess I'll repeat the unanswered argument I posted earlier.

John 1:10 - "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

Job 33:4 - "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."

These verses show three parts of the Trinity having made us. We can not have been made by three different beings.

Peter
 
  • #188
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rubrarubra @ April 13 2004,8:46)]
I don't think God wanted for Jesus to die either.  However, it was the only way to save us.
Hey Peter, I am confused here by this.  The way you phrased your statement, you made God and Jesus two seperate beings.  Do you or do you not believe in the Trinity?  I just wrote to WPG saying that you do, but I apologize if I was wrong.  
smile.gif
 Sorry.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I guess I'll repeat the unanswered argument I posted earlier.

John 1:10 - "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

Job 33:4 - "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."

These verses show three parts of the Trinity having made us.  We can not have been made by three different beings.

Peter
Let me make sure I have all that you are saying here correct.  Real quick I am going to break down your scripture references to the Trinity.  Bare with me.  
biggrin.gif


John 1:10 talks about the Light.  I am assuming that we both agree that "The Word" and "The Light" are symbolic references to Christ right?  Thus, John 1:10 is about Christ.  Ok, one part of the Trinity.

Genesis 1:1This verse makes reference to God as the Creator of Heaven and Earth.  Another member of the Trinity. Ok...

Job 33:4 Here Elihu is talking to reprove Job's three friends and is reasoning with Job.  He mentions the words Spirit of God.  Ok.  The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Trinity belief, but I don't believe the reference in Job 33 is referring to the Holy Ghost as much as it is referring to the power of God.  

Ok.  Now for your question:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]  These verses show three parts of the Trinity having made us.  We can not have been made by three different beings.
With whom are you arguing with?  I never said that we have been made by three differeing beings.  Just that there are three different beings in the Godhead.  All Gods, and ALL seperate in physical form.

My belief is that <span style='color:green'>God, the Eternal Father</span> is the Father of all of us as spirits.  God said:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)
I believe God and Christ were the "us" and the two "our" references of the text and that they together created Man after their image.  
Christ was "the Word" and "the Light" and was "with God" in John 1.  He created the Earth and the Heavens.  However, the part which the "Holy Ghost" played in the creation as laid out in Genesis is not apparent from the texts in the Bible.  I am not sure, as of now, if the Holy Ghost played a part at all.  But, to answer your statement.  The only thing I can say, is that I never claimed anything resembling this:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]We can not have been made by three different beings.
Peter, I seriously have a hard time answering your claims, because you make arguments about statements I have never literally said. What else can I do?  
biggrin.gif


Take care.

--Aaron
 
  • #189
The term "Spirit of God" is used all the time in the Bible and seems always to refer to the Holy Ghost.

Now how about this verse:

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Peter
 
  • #190
Okay so since you don't believe in the Trinity okay i got that. And you are saying that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three different beings or Gods? Well then you believe in many Gods then right? I keep seeing God in plural so you believe in many Gods?
 
  • #191
The 3 are not three different Gods. They are seperate, yet one.

As you can tell, Im a Christian.

In Genesis one, when in says"Let us", that is referring to the trinity, right?

Has anyone seen the New & Old Testament Recovery version? We just got one. I'll have to read it.
 
  • #192
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Odysseus @ April 14 2004,12:41)]WPG,
Yep.  We are.  So far Mike, Zappa, Peter, Jim Scott and a few others stand on the Trinity being that God is in fact one being including Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost.

I am so far the only one believing that Jesus Christ and God the Father and the Holy Ghost are all THREE seperate beings.  But all part of the Godhead.  
biggrin.gif


Does that catch you up a bit?
*takes out Teen Catechism book* Okay this is what Catholics believe. As Catholics we believe the Trinity has three divine persons and one divine nature. Multiplicity in persons. One God, three persons. The Trinity is ONE. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the 'consubstantial Trinity.' Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, 'one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are'. -Catechism, 253, 258
 
  • #193
WPG,

Yes. I do believe in three Gods.  1. God the Father 2. Jesus Christ 3. Holy Ghost.  They all make up the three Gods of the Godhead.  But, I don't worship any Gods other than those three.  So, I do worship a Godhead made up of more than one God.  But, I don't worship any Gods additional to those three.  Just to clear things up, to not make it sound like I believe in other Gods whom no one has heard of.  
biggrin.gif


Peter,
Good verse.  But, what about it can I say that I haven't already?  It is just another verse saying that all three are "one" and we obviously have different beliefs and views about that.  When I look at that verse I ask this.  "One" in what?  Christ admonished the Apostles to be "one" but He didn't mean physically.  Just "one" in purpose.  So, my perspective is that the Godhead is "one" in purpose not physical orientation.


Mike, I am still looking forward to that email.
biggrin.gif
 
  • #194
Well, to clear things up Christians don't believe in more then one God so Christians are monothestic. To believe in more then one God is polythestic.
 
  • #195
well many other religions are monothestic but aren't christians. The Trinity is what makes Christians well a Christian.
 
  • #196
Come on, people, what makes a Christian is believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. The trinity seems to be just semantic quibbling. I can't imagine God up in heaven deciding who gets to heaven and who goes to #### on whether they interpret the trinity as one being or seperate facets of one godhead.

I'll bet all you "trinity" advocates have someting else you disagree on. Does that divide Christians from non-Christians, too?

Capslock
 
  • #197
John 12:44-45 44Then Jesus cried out and said
'He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 "And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me."
John 13:20 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."
John 14:10-11 10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."
Romans 8:9-11 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

All scripture taken from the New King James Version
 
  • #198
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Capslock @ April 14 2004,6:19)]Come on, people, what makes a Christian is believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. The trinity seems to be just semantic quibbling. I can't imagine God up in heaven deciding who gets to heaven and who goes to #### on whether they interpret the trinity as one being or seperate facets of one godhead.

I'll bet all you "trinity" advocates have someting else you disagree on. Does that divide Christians from non-Christians, too?

Capslock
I never said that b/c you're not a Christian you are not going to heaven. Technically there are more definations as to what defines a Christian just as there are many reasons as to what defines a Buddhist, Muslim and so on. It is not semantic quibbling. I find that offensive, but the Trinity is a big part as to what makes a Christian a Christian.
 
  • #199
I never said that I don't beleive in the Trinity. I most certainly do. I had posted the three verses to show that Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost had made us, so they must be parts of the same God. Three different gods would not be able all to have made us.

Casper, the reason we are debating the Trinity is that it is one thing that proves the Book of Mormon not to be God's word. It is not an issue of who is going to heaven and who is not. Only God can judge that.
Peter
 
  • #200
wolfpackgirl, I agree with you. I don't find the discussion itself semantic qubbling. In fact, I enjoy such exercises.

What I find semantic quibbling is dividing people between Christian and non-Christian based on their interpretation of the nature of the trinity. It seems a rather trivial point of dispute in the grand scheme of things. Belief in the trinity isn't among the Ten Commandments, is never specifically mentioned in the Bible or by Jesus, and doesn't seem central to the doctrine of any of the various traditional Christian sects or the LDS.

I still feel there's an effort here to undermine the Mormon church through pointing out alleged "flaws" in its doctrine. If it's just as a way of learning about what Mormons are all about, then it's all good, but it seems to be about undermining Mormonism, in which case folks should take a long hard look at their own beliefs first, because they're equally legitimate, but no more so.

Capslock
 
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